The Cost of Freedom: 9/10/01 again, but the Dems are in charge!
Spring forward…FALL BACK…
It is a sick empty feeling to make a decision, knowing you will be second-guessed if you are wrong, and you will receive ZERO credit if you are right! I suspect most of you have been there…I know I have. But I never had to make a decision of the magnitude Bush and Cheney did after 9/11: do what it takes to rapidly overcome YEARS of neglect in our “human intelligence” gathering, KNOWING that the Democrats would slam them for the tactics and give NO CREDIT for the results.
For all his faults (and they remain LEGION), Bush did what was necessary and right to disrupt and destroy much of the Islam-Terrorist operational mechanisms.
For 6 ½ years after 9/11 the planners and “master-minds” of alQueda had to worry about what we knew. They knew we had captured many of their key operatives (we didn’t even know some WERE key operatives), and they couldn’t be sure what information we had extracted…or how quickly. Uncertainly changed sides in the misnamed “War on Terror”. It was nice to have Uncertainly on our side for a change!
Now Uncertainly is once again an ally of our enemies. It is 9/10 again, and we will increasingly know less and less of their plans…and they will be more and more certain that we do NOT know!
Bush and Cheney (warts and all) knew the Cost of Freedom on 9/12…and they paid it (and may continue paying it!).
Elections have consequences. The consequences of the elections of 2006 and 2008 are that we now have a group of people working hard to see that we pay for our Freedom again…and the Cost, sadly, may be very high indeed.
[1]
I lifted Justmary’s comment from another thread…because it fits PERFECTLY here!
Here is a very important piece on Obama and the CIA.
[2]
It’s pretty good, right? Very informative, and probably true.
[3]
The Nair will be a most effective tool in working for peace!
[4]
In all seriousness, it is 9/10 again. The events of 9/11 were so horrific it is almost beyond belief that the Dems have gone come back in time. I cannot decide if it’s that their drive for power has trumped all else or if they are deluded as to the seriousness of the threat–I lean toward a mix of both.
[5]
Working in DC and being so interested in politics I guess it should be expected, but I have a recurring dream that involves my traveling through numerous government buildings and something like the National Mall witnessing the political machinations from a throng of anonymous bureaucrats. Suddenly last night President George W Bush appeared in my dream which was something of a surprise because I seldom know or recognize the people in my dreams. I was working with some wrapping paper and he was helping me. However, President Bush had to leave. I looked down at the remnants of wrapping paper and realized I didn’t thank him. So with totally inept blathering I said, “I admire you for all you did for me”. [Why am I inarticulate in my dream?]
When I woke I still remembered the dream and realized that I haven’t included President Bush in my daily prayers for awhile. (Most days I pray that Obama has an epiphany and reverses course (some days I add that he voluntarily leaves office). Now I know I should be private and closeted during my prayers, but this morning I once again prayed my standard prayer for President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. I prayed that the Lord strengthen them, lift them up, comfort them, give them assistance to walk in God’s will, and give them the peace, strength and resolve that comes from walking in faith.
Then I see this post from Justrand, and suddenly my dream makes sense and I too am filled with peace, strength and resolve from walking in faith.
[6]
INC permalink
The Nair will be a most effective tool in working for peace!
In the wrong places it might be consider torture!
[7]
Just to keep everybody up to speed — the Whig Party is dead no more.
[8]
On the lighter side of the news….
Terrorist, meet Hillary; Hillary, terrorists
“After all, the lawyer said, that treatment prompted former President Bill Clinton to confess his misbehavior with Monica Lewinsky.”
[9]
This mentality is going to get people killed, the only difference is that it will be clear this time that it is 100% the Communists’ fault
Even cockroaches run away when threatened
Democrats, if they were cockroaches, would subsidize shoe purchases for humans
From whence comes such stupidity…???
I am at a total loss to explain it
Liberalism=Psychosis
[10]
Thanks Dr. Dog about the Whig Party. Confirms my suspicion that people are sick and tired of both parties. And they are sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. TIME FOR A THIRD PARTY!!!!!
[11]
Third Party=Political Suicide
The Modern Whig Party???
Please…
[12]
Uh-Oh…
The CDC is having a PANIC Attack
…also checkout the related outbreak panic flowing onto Drudge
[13]
Chek, MFG,
Not passing any judgments, just data…
[14]
Khan,
I like this line from the article — “Swine flu symptoms include fever, lethargy, lack of appetite and coughing. Some people who have contracted the virus have also reported runny nose, sore throat, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea, according to the CDC. ”
Hell that sounds like me after a weekend of bing drinking during my college years.
[15]
Sorry, I don’t think many of us on the right will abandon the Republican party. Most of us will fight hard to move it back toward Conservatism.
However, If you or anybody else wants to go the 3rd party route, I will do everything I can to make sure your new party doesn’t go anywhere. But, I hope we can still remain friends.
[16]
Yeah Dr.dog, I’ve had college-days hangovers worse than that, but some are suggesting an uncommon virus mutation, which doesn’t sound very good.
Outbreak panic also on Bloomberg
[17]
I’m with MFG and CT. Third party is suicide. The Dems would be delighted, as we would have fatally divided our forces, permanently consigning ourselves to minority status.
That may well happen soon with amnesty anyways, but the only way we have a chance is to revitalize conservatism within the existing party framework.
It is much much more difficult to create a viable new political party than to change and restructure an existing party.
[18]
conservativetony…I agree for 2010. But if the Republican Paryt does not show at least SOME signs of “intelligent life” in 2010 then 2012 is gonna be a bust anyway.
Still…I’d rather “re-model” the Republicans than build a 3rd Party from scratch. My hope is that the Repubs can find a way to pull the Conservative 3rd PArties into a “coalition” for 2010 AND 2012.
[19]
phineasgage,
Test for you there PG. How low in representation numbers would the Republicans have to go before you might consider it?
[20]
I am getting more angry each day at you people at BJG. I’m finding it harder and harder to pull myself away from this site.
>>>Gotta run>>>>
[21]
Sure, Dog, I wasn’t jumping on you, thanks for the information
If The Modern Whig Party is smart they’ll call themselves the party of Lincoln, because he was a Whig a lot longer than he was a Republican…!!!
[22]
It would have to get much worse. It has been much worse. Remember the early to mid-70’s?
[23]
MFG, are you still confident that amnesty will not be pushed right now?
[24]
To all that disagree with me about the third party:
I am tired of that sick feeling in my stomach that I get everytime I vote for the lesser of two evils. Voting for Mac, Cornyn, Hutchinson and P. Sessions after they voted for the Paulson Plan was the last straw. The only way to change the course of American politics is to form a third political force. As far as political suicide, what has the GOP done as far as reducing the size and scope of the federal government? NOTHING. They always get the “limited government religion” whenever they are out of powers. Just like the husband that decides to be faithful once diagnosed with permanent impotence. Political suicide my butt!
[25]
Third Party=Political Suicide: I agree.
As an aside: Not to go O/T too much, but it is related to what phineas said about amnesty. In the swine flu article I saw that there have been 60 deaths in Mexico and people are ill in California and Texas. This looks as if the possible demographics are illegal aliens bringing it in.
[26]
With unemployment in double digits in many states and still rising…???
I would be really surprised if it’s even attempted
When the economy recovers though it will sail through, unless we can win the House back in 2010
The last stand is the House in 2010 (Senate out of reach for the foreseeable future)
Win there or amnesty will sail through…
[27]
The Dems would be delighted, as we would have fatally divided our forces, permanently consigning ourselves to minority status.
You keep missing the point that the Dems won because they got a lot of moderate votes who were disguted with the GOP. I posted before the exit polls that show that 44% of voters consider themselves moderates. If we get them plus pull another 10% of GOPers….. watch out!
[28]
conservativetony…angry? at US?
I’m with you on the 3rd Party nonsense…for 2010. Beyond that all the Repubs have to do to keep me is show a pulse!
That “pulse”, however, has to indicate they are ready to stand and FIGHT for something: our Freedoms! Playing patty-cake with the Dems just means we have happier marching music on the way to America’s funeral!
[29]
I do indeed remember the 70’s. Which kinda leads me to my point. If the Reps got down to 30Senate/100House/12Govs are they even a viable national party at that point? Justrand is right to a point that revitalizing a party might be easier. But parties carry baggage and brand issues as well.
You would think at this point the Reps would have learned something from ‘06 and ‘08 thumpings but we get Steele as the ‘answer’. He is an effective fund raiser but not an effective voice. The Reps have not had their epiphany. Do we wait forever for it to come?
[30]
INC, illegal aliens are responsible for most of the recent public health problems. There was not much doubt about the cause of the salmonella outbreak related to spinach–the MSM just didn’t want to say anything about illegals defecating in the fields.
This is the unwritten story about the open border. The public health risks are enormous. Previously we screened every new individual entering the country, and turned many away. Now diseases that have not been seen in ages, such as tuberculosis, are returning.
[31]
It is much much more difficult to create a viable new political party than to change and restructure an existing party.
Totally disagree. The GOP brand is completely shot in large areas of the country. Plus the party apparatus will not allow outsiders to take over without a huge fight. Look at what is happening in PA with the Specter vs. Toomey. Who do you think the national party is going to help in Arizona? Mac or the other guy?
[32]
You won’t get them, not even close. Your ‘new party’ will pull low single digits. Read some history.
[33]
Dr. Dog,
Instead of Steele, who? Name names and make them famous. Thanks.
[34]
Chekote, voting for the lesser of two evils is what life is all about
I have a good job, but not a perfect job
I like where I live but it could be better
I’m happy with my income but it could be higher
etc etc
The reality is in such a diverse country you’re going to disagree with the leaders even of your own political party on many issues
Which is why Federalism, and then ultimately, secession are so very important
Georgia is not Florida which is not New York which is not Montana
We need to go our own separate ways within the bounds of Federalism
And if that is denied us then we need to go our own separate ways, period.
[35]
With your logic we would have disbanded the GOP in the early ’70’s in the aftermath of Watergate.
Instead, Reagan came along in a few years and the rest is history.
A third party is literally insane.
[36]
This is the unwritten story about the open border. The public health risks are enormous. Previously we screened every new individual entering the country, and turned many away. Now diseases that have not been seen in ages, such as tuberculosis, are returning. — PG
For any immigrant that is to hold a permanent resident card health checks are still required — twice. Once in country, once when they arrive. (to prevent cheating.)
[37]
Chekote, voting for the lesser of two evils is what life is all about
Depressing. Maybe socialized medicine can provide everyone with free Prozac.
[38]
The United States of America reminds me of one of those bitter couples you see who have been together twenty years who hate one another but will not get a divorce; they stew and stew in their unhappiness but will not do what all of their friends know is best: get a divorce
We need a divorce
The United States of America needs to be amicably dissolved
ASAP
[39]
Instead of Steele, who? Name names and make them famous. Thanks. — Chek
[Donning Flame Suit] Palin. And move Steele to funding director.
[40]
Yes, I was referring to illegals.
[41]
Dr. Dog,
You are kidding, right? For real, name names.
[42]
It may be dissolved, but it sure as hell won’t be amicable.
[43]
Ballot access
Do you know how hard it is to get ballot access in all fifty states…???
Suppose a third party presidential candidate wins
How many Senators will belong to his party? Three? Zero?
How many House seats will his party have? Ten? Zero?
How would you move legislation having no members of your own party in Congress…???
[44]
Instead, Reagan came along in a few years and the rest is history.
A third party is literally insane. — PG
No more so that betting on the same horse that places third in a 2 horse race for the 5th time. I am not ready to give up on the Reps yet. But at some point one has to cut one’s losses and move on.
PG, the problem is neither party is addressing the fundamental issue that they are both leftist organizations. If they were not, then EPA, DoEd, DoE and a few other scrunched letters would not exist as a cabinet position.
[45]
Colin Powell might have been able to win third party in 1996
Had Perot been more stable he might have had a chance in 1992
But who is on the scene today who could win third party?
Petraeus…???
Newt? (don’t make me laugh)
Who…??????????????????????????????
[46]
Chek — no I am not.
[47]
I don’t know Phineas
I think we could sell the Communists on why secession is good for them as well
They would be able to get their whole agenda through at once without having to battle conservatives anymore!
Big selling point…
[48]
No way, MFG–they would never give up the tax revenue base.
They know their goose is cooked if they’re just left with the non-productive people that vote for them.
[49]
If they were not, then EPA, DoEd, DoE and a few other scrunched letters would not exist as a cabinet position.
BINGO!!!!!!
[50]
Chek — no I am not.
Are you trying to stir the pot? Won’t fall for it.
[51]
‘No more so that betting on the same horse that places third in a 2 horse race for the 5th time’
You have just neatly summarized the entire history of third parties in American politics.
[52]
PG,
Go back and look at the county election results for ‘08. The leftists are concentrated in the urban areas. By ceding states they get red and blue, not just blue.
[53]
Wow, Chekote didn’t go for the enticing Sarah Palin bait.
She’s developing discipline.
[54]
You could be right
I hope you’re wrong
The productive are not going to allow themselves to be endlessly financially sodomized by these people though
[55]
*sigh*
[56]
That’s why it won’t be amicable.
[57]
With your logic we would have disbanded the GOP in the early ’70’s in the aftermath of Watergate.
One big difference. In the 70s the GOP had not controlled both sides of PA Avenue. So you could make the case that things would be different if only they were put in charge. Since they had their turn at the wheel, we all know what the GOP does when in charge: it expands government and then runs around talking about morals to hide their true agenda.
[58]
Friday Lunchtime MFG Secession Haiku:
It is time to go
No mas to the parasites
Independence now
[59]
MFG
When did this “turning Japanese” thing started with you? I don’t remember you doing this at PP.
[60]
What do you mean? There were GOP presidents from ‘68-’76.
And Watergate was a huge stain on the GOP–by your logic they should have never recovered from that, since the public would think that all Republicans are crooks.
In fact, the GOP did recover, and in the brief span of four years.
All it took was one horrendous president.
We have that now, and then some.
I’ll take my chances.
[61]
MFG has composed haikus for some time now.
They are quite good.
[62]
It was a contest I saw online at the Seattle Post Intelligencer before they went broke
They had a weekly haiku contest and their readers started sending in haiku’s mocking the newspaper industry’s woes
I still remember my favorite, referring to the New York Times:
Cancel my paper
Terminate my subscription
Go bankrupt faster
I guess I like how terse and pithy it is…
[63]
I’m sorry, Chekote–I misread your post.
You were referring to Congressional power.
This is true, but people have short political memories.
I still don’t think a third party makes any sense at this point in time.
[64]
Thanks, Phineas!
[65]
IP, however, is the Poet Laureate of BJG
[66]
What do you mean? There were GOP presidents from ‘68-’76.
But did they control Congress too? NOPE. That’s the difference. We now know what the GOP does when in power: expand government and spend money we don’t have.
I’ll take my chances.
So basically you agree that instead of spending at 100%, you would be happy with spending at 95%. That is the difference between the parties. You big government lover, you break my heart.
[67]
I’d rather see Petraeus opt to run for Prez as a Republican!
But the real hope is that the Republicans decide to FIGHT in 2010 and 2012.
The key to winning is NOT be “slightly less insane than the Democrats”…the key is shout out the truth: “The Dems are INSANE!”
Confront them…the media are NOT going to love the Repubs not matter what! So don’t even TRY to make them do so (McCain). But don’t tell the Repubs they were wrong for supporting Freedom (Paul).
Let’s re-take the Republican Party from the Bushs and McCains!!!
[68]
That is the current state of the party. Parties are not static, they change. The GOP was left in the ’70’s, went conservative in the ’80’s, now has lost its way again.
If you want any hope of controlling the encroachment of socialism (and I don’t think there is much hope at all), reforming the GOP is the way to do it. Going third party simply hands over permanent power to the left. And they would know what to do with it.
[69]
It’s just going to kill you if Sarah Palin leads a conservative revival of the GOP, isn’t it?
[70]
I’d rather see Petraeus opt to run for Prez as a Republican!
I need to know more about his domestic agenda before I sign on. Besides, DHS recently released a report saying that veterans could be dangerous.
[71]
It’s just going to kill you if Sarah Palin leads a conservative revival of the GOP, isn’t it?
Not taking the bait……. This is fun!
[72]
Justrand, honestly, if we don’t win in 2010 the country is done
It may already be done…
[73]
Ok PG,
Then I will ask the same question Chek did. Who do you put in charge of the Reps? Steele is not going to do it. Hell he voted to go with Specter over Toomey. That’s just a continuation of the same BS.
Hmmmmm?
[74]
How’s the knee…???
[75]
Honestly? If it was up to me I would pick Tom Delay, as temporary head, just to kick the Dems in the balls and juice conservatives back up. As Lincoln said of Grant, ‘at least he fights’.
In the meantime I would be combing the grassroots for the future leader, since he/she damn sure isn’t coming from DC.
[76]
Chek, not trying to goad you about Palin. But name me another Governor that has bucked their own party establishment? Remember we are talking about change here.
Besides she is the safest one to pick. Her life has been flayed out like a salmon being carved for sushi. There’s nothing there to hide, its already been covered in excruciating detail.
[77]
the knee is less sore…but it’s only been 2 days
Dr. Dog…I mentioned Petraeus, and I obviously think Palin reaches people on a level most politicians can’t even approach! But whoever it is it needs to be someone who stands up and DEFENDS America…instead of APOLOGIZING for it!
[78]
Delay would be a decent pick. I’ll grant that.
[79]
Well, get better soon
Thor on crutches…???
Inconceivable…!!!
[80]
In reading through all 59 posts this morning I was most taken with Judy’s earlier comments dealing with her recent dream of Bush. It did tie in nicely to Justrand’s commentary, and as usual Judy seems to offer a sensitive insight into the political uncertainty of the moment.
Regarding 3rd parties, I agree with PG and others that they usually go no where. More often than not they merely split up the vote, giving the dims the election at under 50% — remember how Clinton got into office?
Although, the GOP may appear to be in tatters, down and out for the count, circumstances can change in a split second. The American people are known to jump band wagons as soon as the wheels of one come off they swing over to the other. We are into Obama’s governmental hand for 100 days, and I think stress cracks are appearing– despite what the MSM would like you to believe. Hard times can create stronger people. I think time will reveal new leaders in our old party.
If leaders do not rise to the top, then a natural event will unfold in which out of some urgent chrysalis a new way may reveal itself.
[81]
well spoken, janzam!
I believe the Tea Party momvement will either force the Republican Party to develop a backbone (again) or ultimately become the 3rd Party. I desperately hope for the former!
But 2010 has to be ALL about getting Nancy Piglosi OUT as Speaker of the House…which means taking it back from the Dems. this is VERY do-able!
[82]
Terrific article that discusses Tea Parties, Sarah Palin, third parties and uses a statement by Lincoln (what more could you ask for!):
Tea Parties, Then and Now
We cannot spare this woman – she fights.
[83]
PG
There is a growing majority of people who are sick and tired of BOTH parties. They are sick and tired of the same old, tired politics. Obama tapped into this. Beck is tapping into this and that is why he declared that he is no longer a conservative but a libertarian.
More and more people are tired of one party trying to control their bedrooms and the other party trying to control the rest of their lives. The time is ripe for a federalist party.
[84]
Great article INC!
Love the term “Seinfeld Republicans,” as it really fits their tepid nature now. I really don’t know if it will be Palin who will lead the country out of the woods, or not However, she did project a feistiness and willingness to be anything but PC while she was up there on that podium. And, people were re-charged under the voltage of her genuiness. That is what is lacking today –> authentic leadership.
Obama, and many, in the both the dim and repub parties, are like drones with no vision of their own — simply being inputed by some off-site political heavy weight. People are eager for more…..hence the effectiveness of the tea parties!
[85]
Oh jeez. This is counter productive.
[86]
Dr.Dog…”This is counter productive.”
Depends on your point of view…if your intent is to embarrass the previous administration, embolden our enemies, and incite further violence against Americans worldwide it is VERY productive!
[87]
J,
That would be there position of course, not mine.
[88]
Tom Delay, as temporary head
You mean the same Tom Delay that said that there was no “fat” left to cut in the federal budget?
But all means, make him the face of the Republican party. The federalist party is looking better and better…
[89]
Obama defined –
I WANNA A WABBIT
A precocious little girl (Democrats) missing two front teerh, walks into a pet shop and says to the shopkeeper, “Excuthe me, mithter, do you have widdle wabbits?”
As the shopkeeper’s heart melts, he gets down on his knees (Republicans) so that he’s on her level and asks,”Do you want a widdle white wabbit, or a thoft and fuwwy bwack wabbit, or maybe one like that cute widdle bwown wabbit overthere?”
She, in turn, blushes, rocks on her heels, puts her hands on her knees, leans forward and says, in a quiet voice,”You know, mithter, I don’t think my python will weally give a thyit.”
[90]
We cannot spare this woman – she fights.
How? The article provides no evidence. It just makes a statement. It is like me saying I look like Heidi Klum.
[91]
believe the Tea Party momvement will either force the Republican Party to develop a backbone
Still missing the point Justrand. The reason they don’t fight is because the AGREE with the Dems about big government. Remember the DeLay K street project? The GOP wants big government on the cheap.
[92]
Although, the GOP may appear to be in tatters, down and out for the count, circumstances can change in a split second.
And why do you want the GOP to win? So they can do No Child Left Behind II? Faith-Based Initiatives II? Medicare Part Z?
[93]
The GOP is a body of people with ideas. Such a party does not have to be stuck in stone, especially in how it chooses to implement it’s ideas. Also ideas evolve and change with the people who come and go from the party leadership.
In other words, Chekote, the party today, can totally revamp itself to become a better host of ideas and people tomorrow. I don’t think there is a need to throw the baby out with the bath water…just yet!
[94]
chekote: “Still missing the point Justrand”
No, chekote, YOU are!
The time and effort necesary to build a VIABLE 3rd Party between now and 2010 just IS NOT THERE. Nor, frankly, is it there for 2012 unless someONE EXTRAORDINARY happens!
I do believe someONE could provide a rallying cry to all Americans for 2012 that would give make a difference. But absent that ONE person there is no way it can or should happen.
The absolute best bet is to force reform on the Republican Party…and the Tea Parties may yet do exactly that!
What the Tea Parties do is provide those Republicans (and even Dems) who still believe in this country a platform to rally with and behind!
But dividing what strength we have now, before even 2010 is suicide!!
[95]
Like it or not, chekote, it takes money, access and apparatus to move a national party forward.
Like I said, if someONE comes along, who can rally the Tea Party folks AND then use that pwer to wrest the Republican Party from the McCains of the world then we have a chance for a viable candidate!
[96]
Great Post! And even better back-and-forth comments. I’m a Happy Lurker today…
[97]
J,
Hmm. Unless the TEAs were to get total control of the Reps they lose their one advantage — unaffiliated status.
[98]
One bank gives TARP the finger.
[99]
good point, Dr. Dog
then again, the ONLY reason that MoveOn has “unaffiliated status” is that the media grants them that!
I was more thinking of a coalition between the Tea Party movement and the Republican Party.
For that matter…look at Lieberman running NOT as a Democrat…but then cuacusing with the Dems. Same with Sanders from Vermont.
The Republicans should agree to help some 3rd PArty candidates from, say, the TEA Party, get elected…in return for their support on the national ticket!
[100]
dare we hope
The demonrats will probably win anyway, but at least this send a message to the other rinos.
It matters little either way, as we are outnumbered from the gitgo.
[101]
IP
Spot on!
[102]
Well, Specter is toast
Problem is Toomey looks like Santorum II
Another Senate seat lost in all likelihood…
[103]
MFG,
I hope, but considering how the Rep lead died in NY-20 I won’t believe the polls till it is closer to election time.
[104]
Some analysis is missing from the discussion of the electorate, the potential for third party success, and GOP ability to reverse the negative branding inflicted by 8 years of BDS, MSM bias, and the bi-partisan federal spending sprees.
First, in 92 Perot made the largest third party showing in my lifetime. The demographics from that election indicated that the country was divided as 38% D, 35% R, and 27% I, with 49% self-proclaimed moderates, 21% liberal, and 30% conservative. Perot picked up 19% of the vote consisting of 13% D, 17% R, and 30% I, or 18%L, 21%M, and 18% C. Each party cannibalized the others voters equally by Clinton receiving 10% of the Rs and Bush receiving 10% of the Ds. The difference is that Clinton, running as a centrist, picked up 18% of the conservative vote, while 14% of the liberals voted for Bush41. Clinton also captured 48% of the moderate vote. Thus the difference in party identification of 2% and the ideologically confused of 4% resulted in Clinton’s 6% vote margin over Bush41.
In 2008, 22% identified as liberals, 34% as conservative, and 44% as moderate, with 39% of the moderates voting for McCain, while Obama captured 20% of some very confused or fooled conservatives, and 10% of the liberals voted McCain (were these the PUMA/ Hillary supporters?). Party identification was divided as 39% D, 32% R and 29%I. Obama took 60% of the moderate vote.
Generally, about half of the moderates are solid Democrats who will vote for the Democrat regardless of ideology but don’t identify themselves as liberals. In 1992, even with Perot’s strong third-party showing, Clinton garnered 48% of the moderates. In 1996 Clinton, during a strong economy managed to capture 57% of the moderates against a weakened Senator Dole. Kerry garnered 54% of the moderates.
In 1980 when the country was divided by party as 43%D, 28%R, and 23%I and by ideology as 17%L, 46%M, and 28%C Reagan captured 56% of the independents and 49% of the moderates. This reflects the Carter weakened Democrat brand. As someone who lived through the post Watergate destruction of the GOP, and then the Carter malaise are not so worried about the ability to recover the GOP brand. All we need is one outrageously power grabbing, Constitution shredding Marxist surrounded by idiots, followed by a personally appealing, common-man & woman reaching, America loving candidate.
Second, in 2008 2.8 million new black voters appeared at the polls. To be sure these first time voters were motivated by suddenly having a choice between something other than two white guys. The major reason for the lack of participation by the black community in past elections was there was no difference between the candidates. In 2008, they saw a sufficient difference to motivate their vote.
Third, there is still a significant segment of the population that still does not bother to vote because they echo that same sentiment that there is no difference between the candidates and their vote does not matter. It isn’t the moderates that we need to convince to shift back they already do ebb and flow mainly on the kitchen table economics issue.
The real difference in 2010 and 2012 will be reaching out to those who think their vote does not matter, that there is no difference in the candidates. They must be energized to vote in order to save their incomes, their assets, and their country. These folks need to be shaken from their slumber and made aware that if they do not act to protect their most important asset – their freedom, then it too will disappear down that same rat hole of excessive taxes and government spending that now sucks away their incomes.
[105]
hey…whatever happened in NY-20???
[106]
Phineas — I’m re-reading the Reagan Revolution and there is only one candidate that comes to mind (she says with heart of a true feminist smile creeping across her lips).
[107]
judy…that was a stunning piece of analysis!!!! Worth clipping and saving!
Thx!
[108]
That is terrific, Judy!
[109]
Thank you I & J — maybe it will kill this 3rd party nonsense.
[110]
Gosh I just adore Dick Cheney
Something tells me Zero is going to be sorry he didn’t know not to mess with Dick. [Apply any alternative meanings at your own discretion.]
[111]
Judy,
The question is, will Obama accept an invitation to go hunting with Dick? O is a lawyer remember.
[112]
Judy the analysis is excellent.
There is one factor that has changed radically since 1992. MSM as the gatekeeper has been altered. That % of the population that gets their news primarily from alternate sources have a different view of the world. Those whose sole source is the broadcast channels yet another view and it will not be contradictory to Obama at the current time. (Fox broadcast is tame in comparison to their cable delivery.)
[113]
DrDog — that segment of the population who don’t bother to vote based upon not seeing a difference in the candidates are not watching/reading the MSM news for anything but the weather, sports, and maybe some local info. Now with internet and ESPN they are not longer locked into those evening news broadcasts.
No one is listening for Uncle Walter’s opinion anymore.
[114]
Today’s poster of derangement.
[115]
Judy,
What you don’t realize is that 35% of the population does not have broadband. So indeed that segment of the population IS locked into the evening newscasts. My parents for example just got internet cable in their neighborhood last year.
[116]
Oooops. I erred. Its worse than I thought. The US penetration in broadband is only 23% as of last years stats. Data here.
[117]
As someone who lived through the post Watergate destruction of the GOP, and then the Carter malaise are not so worried about the ability to recover the GOP brand.
So the brand recovers and the GOP regains power to do what? Expand government? Institute new federal programs? Or maybe the can waste more time chasing down Clinton’s dalliances instead of eliminating HUD. Or maybe they can make the base happy by using the power of government to interfere in a private family matter like they did in the Schiavo case while at the same time decrying the intrusive federal government. Thanks, but no thanks. We just have to make sure that we keep out the local GOP groups out of our Tea Party and Beck group.
[118]
followed by a personally appealing, common-man & woman reaching, America loving candidate.
You are conveniently forgetting that America just got done voting for a man who sat in Rev. Wright’s church for 20 years. How is that for America loving? Or maybe people excused Rev. Wright since he was taken out of context, and the media hand selectively picked and looped the GD America and USKKKKK comments. Kinda like people here make excuses for a certain candidate’s interview with Couric.
[119]
nah…not forgetting at all. but a HUGE number of people in this country voted for Obama out a VERY misguided sense of “Guilt!” over America’s past treatment of blacks.
The media trumpeted that then…and they CONTINUE to trumpet that! (witness Geraflo on MSNBC).
One can only hope that those that felt this VERY misguided guilt have eff’ing gotten over it!
Because the election contest (can’t say “Race”) should about who is better qualified! Not GUILT!
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
[120]
‘waste more time chasing down Clinton’s dalliances’
More evidence of Chekote’s true roots. Jesus-tiddlywinks-Christ, the man lied under oath!
Proffering the Dem line that it was ‘all about sex’ doesn’t do much for your credibility.
This goes along with your post at HH about how the problem with conservatives is that they ‘just haven’t accepted the ’60’s sexual revolution’.
This is why you don’t feel at home in the GOP and keep demanding that everyone conform to your viewpoint.
Your issues about sex and abortion aren’t likely to be relieved by any changes in the GOP.
Perhaps this is why you are so supportive of the irrational idea of a third party.
[121]
Phineas, what is your take on this epidemic?
[122]
More evidence of Chekote’s true roots. Jesus-tiddlywinks-Christ, the man lied under oath!
That’s not how the case started. It started because some conservative groups convinced Paula Jones to file a sexual harassment suit against Clinton. He lied under oath later. The point is that conservatives wasted more time chasing down Clinton’s extra-marital affairs (and nobody cared about it. Even Hillary) than focusing on making sure that the GOP eliminated federal departments as they promised they would.
This goes along with your post at HH about how the problem with conservatives is that they ‘just haven’t accepted the ’60’s sexual revolution’.
Stand by than 100%. Too many prudes. Too many guilt-ridden Catholics. That is why the Corner has become unreadable. Recently, when Bristol said that abstinence only education was not “realistic” (a position that she had to immediately drop thanks to her mother’s political ambitions – but I digress), J-Lo wrote something about young women needing more self-respect and waiting until marriage. What nonsense! So if you have sex, you don’t have self-respect? Again, nonsense. I had sex as a teenager. My only regret is that I didn’t screw around more. That way I would have learned at an earlier age that all men basically do the same thing in bed. Who knows? Maybe I could have salvaged my first marriage.
This is why you don’t feel at home in the GOP and keep demanding that everyone conform to your viewpoint.
You are right. I don’t feel at home in a big federal government party. I don’t feel at home in a party that wants to use government to stick their nose in family matters.
Your issues about sex and abortion aren’t likely to be relieved by any changes in the GOP.
My views on sex are mainstream. The GOP’s views on sex are…. well…. Victorian.
Perhaps this is why you are so supportive of the irrational idea of a third party.
BINGO!!!!
PG
Do you still love me?
[123]
chekote: “The GOP’s views on sex are…. well…. Victorian.”
wrong again!
The GOP’s views tend to be:
You don’t have to do what I LIKE…
but I don’t have to LIKE what you DO!
The Left INSISTS that we LOVE what they do! And, that we be forced to do what they like!!
Conservatives pretty much want to get on with their lives. Leftists want to CONTROL everyone else’s life…because they are CONVINCED that they are right!!
Tolerance of gays? In San Franciso they shut down major streets several times a year for “Gay Pride” parades (complete with simulated and UN-simulated sex on the floats!), Bondage demonstrations (TRUE!), and a variety of other events on PUBLIC property all devoted to gay sex!
I do NOT care what folks do in their bedrooms…but I DO care what they do on PUBLIC PROPERTY!
We’re not “Victorian”…they’re insane!
[124]
Lots going on regarding Justrand’s thread. I again liked Judy’s link to Hot Air regarding Dick Cheney…especially the following line”
Is that what it is with Obama — testicular fortitude! When I’m not worried about the man, I am laughing at him!
[125]
Thinking about whether the GOP’s sexual habits are “hip” or “Victorian” are the least of the republican’s problems — don’t you think?
[126]
Jan
I was responding to PG. The problem is that the GOP is viewed as backward, prudish, Bible thumping, religious party. I am not saying that they are. I am just saying that it is the perception. That perception in okay in the Bible belt. But it is political cryptonite in the rest of the country.
[127]
Chekote,
I read your last post. I even utilized the Windows 7 search feature to look for the words ‘rape’, ‘rapist’, ‘violent’, ‘forceful’ but I couldn’t find any.
Sexual harrassment is not the same thing as rape (as Clinton is alleged) and I can’t or won’t believe Paula Jones went to the police or her friends and told them Clinton made a lewd comment about her breasts or ‘accidentally’ let his hand slip under her skirt.
Just because some over-priced Washington lawyers got the country to call it ’sexual harrassment’ doesn’t make it so and it also doesn’t mean that those on the right who wanted him tried for his alleged crimes are ‘Victorian.’
[128]
The irony is in 50 years perceptions have been forced. Used to be one did not have to make an issue as to what normal was. It was a given more or less. Now one making a claim or desire to maintain some standards of decency is set up for challenge and derision. And the MSM goes right along with it as part of their gotcha parade against conservatives that are trying to hold the line.
Its down right a freak out.
[129]
Chek,
Being a religious, honest to your best effort, country loving person is the norm everywhere but the large urban centers.
[130]
That perception in okay in the Bible belt. But it is political cryptonite in the rest of the country.~~ COYOTE
Therefore we should just accept the degeneracy of the “majority”, because they must be right.The ancient Romans had the same moral disconnect. They are no longer with us.Why should we bend principles just to cater to the lowest common denominator?
The GOP can never out liberal the liberals,so why even try?
[131]
“Oh jeez. This is counter productive.”
—
Not if politicizing national security is your game.
I really don’t have words to describe the outrages unleashed from this administration this week, total twilightzone.
[132]
I really don’t have words to describe the outrages unleashed from this administration this week, total twilightzone. ~~nocturnal falcon
All of ths bravo sierra is a classic misdirection move on the part of barack ovomit, to distract us from his railroading through of the socialist crapola he has in store. While we strain at these grass fires, he will be burning down the forest.
[133]
Chekote
I think a person can get too wrapped up in what “other” people are always thinking about certain POVs, values, habits and what not. I don’t really care what libs “think” about bible-thumbing religious people. Most religious values are personally implemented and don’t really bother anyone else, anyway.
My concerns are encroaching and intrusive government. I worry about the fertilization of people’s minds into believing a nanny state is better than a free state. I want a government who is going to safeguard our borders, watch over our security rather than just think of means and ways to give out more entitlements.
[134]
Don’t the “distractions” have helped mask bury Harman and DiFi’s ‘little’ issues all week, and god knows what else.
[135]
Thanks for the hotair – Cheney link, good points made in that post.
[136]
My concerns are encroaching and intrusive government. I worry about the fertilization of people’s minds into believing a nanny state is better than a free state. I want a government who is going to safeguard our borders, watch over our security rather than just think of means and ways to give out more entitlements.
Me too. And that is why we need to stay focused on the issues you listed instead of going off on tangents about the Roman empire. Morality and the rest. This is serious business.
[137]
Italics
[138]
chekote, I agree on focusing on key issues…it’s been a consistent mantra of mine. BUT…the Left knows that eroding our core values is THE KEY to creating divisions between us that they can exploit.
It is exactly why Lenin sought to destroy the church FIRST!
[139]
And that is why we need to stay focused on the issues you listed instead of going off on tangents about the Roman empire. Morality and the rest. This is serious business.
Hey, because it is serious business is exactly why the Roman empire, morality and the rest are brought up!
“Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” Edmund Burke
There’s a lot of history we really don’t want to repeat!
[140]
Therefore we should just accept the degeneracy of the “majority”, because they must be right.
Nobody is telling to do anything. Why is this crap even a political issue?
[141]
For the record, the Roman Empire did not fall because they had too much sex.
[142]
Agreed…..and have you seen this? I love this guy, he pulls no punches. Hattip hot air.
[143]
Chekote — your psychosis isn’t just showing — you’ve got it smeared all over this tread.
Golly gee woman, if you want we’ll take up a collection so you can go spend some time on a professional’s couch.
me, me, me, me, me, me, me
You can pretend your views are mainstream and others are out of touch — but how would you really know? I don’t think you stop focusing on yourself long enough to actually comprehend both the differences and similarities in all human beings.
NO — THE PROBLEM IS you view the GOP <i.”as backward, prudish, Bible thumping, religious party. … and yes you do say that the GOP is exactly that when you aren’t laying it off on a “they”
Lord have mercy. Between being Daddy’s little princess, raised in Catholic guilt, and then getting caught screwing around in high school with some Baptist boy and no doubt forced into a shot-gun marriage — your head’s been twisted around more than Linda Blair’s. Now the only way you have of dealing with your unresolved guilt, misplaced rage, damaged self-image, and general confusion is by projection, distortion, deception.
That perception in okay in the Bible belt. But it is political cryptonite in the rest of the country. the more you post that more narrow your horizons become. I also wonder about your actual associations with the non-internet world if this is what you think.
Then again, maybe you just make such outrageous statement because you are a colossal attention junkie.
[144]
Judy
The Dr. Phil of BeJohnGalt.com.
[145]
I really don’t have words to describe the outrages unleashed from this administration this week, total twilightzone. ~~nocturnal falcon
All of ths bravo sierra is a classic misdirection move on the part of barack ovomit, to distract us from his railroading through of the socialist crapola he has in store. While we strain at these grass fires, he will be burning down the forest.
Exactly — I’ve a post pending about Obama nationalizing the banks by converting preferred stock in TARP financial institutions. This is the number one Alinsky rule regarding power is controling the money.
Once Obama controls all the capital markets the socialism web is complete.
[146]
chekote, I’m not going to bother to pull out my Roman history textbook and start quoting it. I can’t believe you wrote that.
[147]
For the record, the Roman Empire did not fall because they had too much sex ~~ coyote
For the record , sexual degeneracy was ONE facet of the downward moral spiral that contributed to their decline. It wasn’t a cause, but a symptom. We are showing the same symptoms. Throwing in the towel and accepting that behavior, may buy some votes, but the end result will be the same deterioration of the culture.
[148]
It’s too much bother to key it in. I have some quotes from the Heritage Foundation instead.
[149]
From The Heritage Foundation:
The Roots of Modern Conservative Thought from Burke to Kirk:
[150]
Christianity brought the Roman Empire to an end. The cultural underpinning of the Roman Empire was the pagan religion. Once that was replaced with Christianity, the empire was over. There are other reasons such expanding Roman citizenship to other ethnic groups. The problems associated with managing such a vast and multicultural empire. The barbarian attacks. Lots of reason. But Christianity marked the end. Ask yourself if tomorrow the US adopts Islam as its state and national religion, wouldn’t that mark the end of the US? On the other hand, muslim disapprove of sex outside marriage, abortion, homosexuality, theory of evolution….. lots of good stuff.
[151]
Chekote — the Blanche DuBois of BJG
Gee – Chekote why are you the only one who requires analysis around here?
Or, from what I’ve been reading at HH — there?
[152]
You go, ip!
[153]
chek, I don’t know where you get your history, but it sounds like something from a leftist blog.
[154]
On the other hand, muslim disapprove of sex outside marriage, abortion, homosexuality, theory of evolution….. lots of good stuff. — chek
Ah yes and the cures are good too — beheading, stoning, sexual mutilation of females, honor killings, and property depredation.
/snark
[155]
INC
There is no disagreement about the fact that you need a moral code in order for our – meaning the US – society to work. Madison did say that you need a moral and religious people for the American experiment to work. No argument there. I just don’t know what you and the people who agree with (Yes, you Judy!) want or expect government and the politicians to do about it. What specifically do you want them to do?
[156]
chek, I don’t know where you get your history, but it sounds like something from a leftist blog.
Eight years of Catholic education in Rome, Italy. One year in boarding school to be exact. Never heard about sex being the downfall of Rome until I started attending Baptist Sunday School. They also told me that Catholics are not “real” Christians.
[157]
Ah yes and the cures are good too — beheading, stoning, sexual mutilation of females, honor killings, and property depredation.
Dr. Dog,
You are getting lost in the details.
[158]
INC,
The Romans were sort of known for their sexual exploits more of less the entire time it existed. There are fresco’s that would make Hustler blush. The whole Greco-Roman period life was cheap and so were some of the base instincts. But that is not our society and not a model to be emulated by us.
[159]
Chek –
Don’t think so. Islam is like watching a commercial for Celebrex. The disclaimer is longer than the benefits for the drug. Same with Islam.
[160]
Chekote — what I expect the government and politicians to do about it is not attack/persecute those who are both moral and religious and not to encourage behaviours that are the exact opposite of moral and/or religious people.
But once again you post that you have so many unresolved emotional issues that your entire thought process and values is a visceral reaction to youth trama.
How old are you that you are still reacting to circumstances and events from teen-age years? Shouldn’t you have matured past that and resolved your teen-age demons by now?
Lord help me if I developed my political ideology based upon a reaction to being elbowed by my 8th grade Baptist friends during altar call to go be “saved”. To do so would be reactionary and emotion based.
It is becoming very clear to me that until you understand the motivations behind why you believe what you believe that you shouldn’t be assisting others in formulating strategy or agendas.
[161]
Dr. Dog,
They had a whole Priapus Cult which was widespread in Greek and Roman societies. Have you ever been to Pompeii?
[162]
I’m leaving for dinner — but before I leave I want to repeat
Justrand and INC — excellent threads and stellar writing.
[163]
Judy
I believe that it is not the government’s role to impose a religion or moral values. I believe that the role of government is to ensure stability, pursue prudent and thoughtful change (if necessary), to protect people’s rights and maitain order.
what I expect the government and politicians to do about it is not attack/persecute those who are both moral and religious and not to encourage behaviours that are the exact opposite of moral and/or religious people.
Examples please.
[164]
Justrand and INC — excellent threads and stellar writing.
Okay Judy. I am sure they’ll make you a regular poster. Just kidding!!!!
Finally, something Dr. Phillipa (Judy) and I can agree on.
[165]
Ask yourself if tomorrow the US adopts Islam as its state and national religion, wouldn’t that mark the end of the US? ~~~`coyote
Perhaps it would, but before that happened, the ground work of decay will have already set in before hand, causing such an adoption. Part of that decay would be the casting off of our historical cultural beliefs. Destroying the foundation of these beliefs is part and parcel of the game plan of the rabid left via a panoply of bravo sierra:
1)Disrespect for the older generation.
2)seeking succor at others expense.
3)Lowering of educational standards.
4)Lowering of civil discourse.
5)Creating contempt for patriotism.
6)Creating contempt for religion.
7)Devaluing sanctity of life.
8,Lowering of sexual mores.
9)creating dependency on bib brother.
The list is endless, but the game plan is to
indulge in nihilism to make way for their brave new world.Homo faggism/sexual libertarianism is just one of the things on the list, but that doesn’t mean we should accept that or any of the others, just to buy votes.
[166]
Dr. Dog,
They had a whole Priapus Cult which was widespread in Greek and Roman societies. Have you ever been to Pompeii?
———————————————–
Wish I had. Went on a Italian tour with Wife 1 back in the 80’s. Po Valley, Florence, Venice, Rome. Fantastic.
[167]
ip727, in re. them trying to show “Disrespect for the older generation” they best remember that the “older generation” is VERY well armed…well past giving a shit!
I have a friend who is NOT a former Marine. It matters to this story. After 9/11 I asked him “what he would do if he was ever on a plane that was highjacked”?
His response: “I would shout out: Semper Fi ONE”
Hoping to hear “Semper Fi TWO” and “Semper Fi THREE”
If our government BECOMES the terrorists, they can expect a lot of former Marines…and former military of ALL services, to stand up and FIGHT!
Semper Fi!
[168]
4)Lowering of civil discourse.
This coming from you?!?!?!?!?
Anyway IP, from your list the only thing government can do is get out of the entitlement and welfare business. The rest it is up families and other cultural institutions not the politicians or government.
[169]
Hoorah, Justrand
[170]
thx, chekote!
we’re, literally, here 4 you!
[171]
Chekote — there is a world of difference between imposing a religion or moral values and NOT persecuting those who are religious or recouraging behaviours that are not moral.
First example — government welfare encouraged removal of the husband/father from the home and encouraged additional children to unwed or unpartnered mothers.
[172]
“If our government BECOMES the terrorists,”
—
What’s this “if” stuff… lol
[173]
chekote permalink
4)Lowering of civil discourse.
This coming from you?!?!?!?!?
When in rome etc.etc.
[174]
ip727, in re. them trying to show “Disrespect for the older generation” they best remember that the “older generation” is VERY well armed…well past giving a shit! — Justrand
Fits me to a tee. I have had the high side 50 years. No complaints if today was was the day the bell tolls. Today maybe a good day to die, but I am taking some people with me.
[175]
Judy
I said that other than welfare, bailouts, the government can’t do much when it come to the moral code. Cultural norms are set by cultural institutions like families, community organizations, schools, entertainment, media. Political parties don’t set cultural norms. They respond to them. So when a politician says I stand for moral values he is just blowing smoke up your arse. (How is that for civil discourse!)
[176]
Political parties don’t set cultural norms. ~~~coyote
They influence the culture by caving in to groups that would destroy said culture.Abortionists, gay agenda,etc.
[177]
The gay agenda is being advanced through cultural institutions like entertainment, media. You have an entire generation that has grown up with MTV showing gay couples. That’s how the gay agenda is being advanced. That and the judicial branch. So if you want to change the culture, take over the media, entertainment, etc. Quit wasting time with political parties.
[178]
chekote permalink
The gay agenda is being advanced through cultural institutions like entertainment, media. You have an entire generation that has grown up with MTV showing gay couples. That’s how the gay agenda is being advanced. That and the judicial branch. So if you want to change the culture, take over the media, entertainment, etc. Quit wasting time with political parties.
It is “political parties/politicians” that appoint pro homo judges and push the gay agenda (marriage/civil unions etc.), legislatively.
Why should they get a pass? The judicial oligarchs started this crap, and the legislatures of the states involved went along with it,(except Iowa)instead of of fighting it. Media propaganda plays a role, but the nut cutting comes from the courts/politicians.Why should they get a pass??