Traction & Tracking: Chrysler Story Picks Up Speed Will It Help Drive Approval Index Downhill?
Earlier today janzam mentioned that today’s Rasmussen Reports Daily Presidential Tracking Poll gives Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of +1. How soon before it hits negative territory?
Watch to see if the developing story on the Chrysler bankruptcy gains traction and gives some downhill tracking to the poll!
MFG updated us on the Chrysler bankruptcy on Thursday and I mentioned the WH manipulation in framing the story yesterday. More news is coming out:
From Hot Air this afternoon: Obama uses WH press corps as threat against Chrysler investors
An attorney representing several Chrysler bondholders accused the Obama administration of intimidating his clients by issuing threats of public humiliation if they opposed their brokered deal to resolve the automaker’s debts. Speaking to WJR, Thomas Lauria said that the White House called the bondholders “vultures” for insisting on their rights as senior creditors and told them that the Obama administration would use the White House press corps to attack them in the media.
Ed Morrissey sends you to blogger Corky Boyd for the transcript, who also writes that this was on (my emphasis): “Detroit’s Frank Beckman’s morning talk show (WJR)”:
White House uses strong arm tactics to extort concessions from lenders
Jake Tapper also reported it at Political Punch. When I saw his headline about 3:40 this afternoon, it read as follows:
Bankruptcy Attorney: Obama Administration Auto Task Force Leader Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm’s Reputation
The headline has been changed to this:
White House Denies Charge By Attorney that Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm’s Reputation
How do I know? Because I cut and pasted the first headline into a comment of mine at Hot Air. Tapper’s story was up at 3:17, and my comment logged in at 3:42. By 4:15 the headline had been changed. Someone got on this ASAP.
Hot Air now has an update to the original post that includes Tapper’s report: Update: Tapper reports, WH denies
Political Punch reported that the attorney who was interviewed, Thomas Lauria, works for White & Case. According to one of the commenter at Hot Air this firm is “the leading corporate bankruptcy firm in the country.” Another commenter noted that this was top story at memorandum. It has been pushed down now by other news, but the story is going viral on the web. Instapundit has weighed in on this, and you know what that means!
Gateway Pundit has YouTube audio up of Mark Levin discussing this yesterday.
__________
Hat Tip:
janzam, Rasmussen Reports, Hot Air and its commenters, Corky Boyd, Political Punch, memorandum and Gateway Pundit.
Update: My husband just informed me that he wrote a post on this earlier today, FT: Chrysler saga sets dangerous precedent in which he discusses a Financial Times column on Obama and Chrysler and the rule of law. The Times begin with a quote from Machiavell,
Il fine giustifica i mezzi. (The end justifies the means.) Thus wrote Niccolò Machiavelli, the grandaddy of all political consiglieri, in instructing his prince on how to seize and retain power.
and closes by saying:
No end justifies the end of the rule of financial law.
UPDATE II: Doctor Zero on Obama’s tactics: The Necessary Enemy. The other day he did a post I called Econ 101 For Liberals. This new one on Chrysler could be termed A Primer on Collectivist Politics.
UPDATE III: NewsBusters has a lengthy rush transcript of the WJR interview with Lauria.
UPDATE IV: Here is the audio of the Lauria interview with Frank Beckmann at WJR. H/T: conservativetony
[1]
INC
I am so glad that you are bringing together all the tidbits to this Chrysler story! It’s like a lot of strands, some with barbed wire, coming together to put into proper perspective the truth, and “nothing but the truth,” I hope….
Last week, I heard Obama blathering about Chrysler, and what their next move was, talking as if “he” were the CEO of the company. After his soundbite, the newsman said that the current CEO was going to leave after the bankrupsy had been processed, and more than likely it would be “the government” who would chose the next CEO to head up Chrysler!
This was chilling to me, that the news commentator sounded so matter-of-fact about the auto industry being basically now run by the government. Whew, I hope the public catches a good whiff of how Obama, like Sherman marching through the south, is going through the country and putting his finger on the pulse of everything!
Thanks again, INC, for putting all the links together for this important thread!
[2]
INC…splendid work, my dear!!!
A wonderful assemblage of facts, and a great bit of analysis!!
Ya gotta figure that sooner or later these goons were going to get caught using the “Chicago Rules” approach to, uh, “influencing events”.
I DO believe this story has huge legs…whether or not the media will follow up remains to be seen. Remember: if THEY don’t report on it, it either didn’t happen…or it isn’t important!
GREAT JOB!!
[3]
Jan, you’re welcome! Is this the video you meant? A commenter at Hot Air linked to it:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQY4B-g5YHE&hl=en&fs=1]
[4]
Thanks, boss.
I was reading along and kept finding more as I followed links.
My husband just informed me he wrote up something on this he read in the Financial Times. He beat me to it. We do communicate!, but daily life and errands short circuited the process today!
[5]
INC
I only heard a sound bite snippet. It, though, very well could have come from yet another lengthy Obama news briefing, like the one you posted here from Youtube.
A little off subject, but dealing with yet another piece of narcissistic Obama rhetoric, was his Missouri townhall meeting where he was very smug about the tea parties. Just read the backwash from that speech!
[6]
More pushback, Jan. Let’s hope it continues.
[7]
No, unless you call sending his thugs around to mess them up and then claiming they would not meet with him, because they are cowards.
Hitler’s playbook.
[8]
INC
Has there been any more movement in those tea party numbers. The last count you posted was something like 931,000????
[9]
As the Chrysler bondholder draws back the blood-soaked sheets, they begin to scream:
“Khartoum…Khartooooooooooooooooooooooum”
Frankly, I never thought they’d remake “The Godfather”…but if they did, I just never saw Barak Obama as Vito Corleone. Then again, I never saw this guy as President either!
[10]
Jan, not since the last time I looked at them. I’ll check again.
I also updated the post to include my husband’s read on this and linked to the Financial Times.
This story has legs. The Sunday shows should be interesting spin.
[11]
Jan, numbers are still 935,304. I would guess that PJTV has heard from just about everyone.
[12]
Well, Here is a far-seeing column from before the election…
Is the U.S. Capitalist, Socialist or Something In-between?, from shortly after it.
Great post, INC. We can see how this is going to be a long 4 years, with every tool imaginable used by this administration, including illegal methods, to bash the right into silence.
[13]
Thanks INC — That was fast!
I do think the Chrysler story, with or without the MSM, is going to have an impact. People are looking for “direction,” but not the type of direction where someone is holding a baseball bat to your head, like what is going on with the Chrysler bankrupsy.
[14]
Name change —> Barak Corleone!
[15]
Yes, Lauria was on a Detroit station. I’m waiting for bc3b to weigh in on this.
If ABC picked up on this and the Times discussed concerns about rule of law even without mentioning Lauria’s statments, well, this is definitely rolling along.
[16]
His name has always been: Barack Hussein Odinga Mugabe.
[17]
rightwingyahoo permalink
No, unless you call sending his thugs around to mess them up and then claiming they would not meet with him, because they are cowards.
Hitler’s playbook.
Remember, two can play this game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0RLyxP13o
[18]
GN, time will tell how much courage the right has left. The test is coming very soon.
[19]
gnqanq…great scene!
More and more we are all asking ourselves: “What are you prepared to do?”, because make no mistake the “Capone Mob” is indeed running (and ruining) the country.
Still, between the brave (and I MEAN that) attorney representing the Chrysler bondholders blowing the whistle, and Andrew McCarthy standing up Eric Holder (by refusing to be a pawn), more and more folks ARE resisting!
I guess resistance isn’t futile after all!
[20]
In Justrand’s thread on What is and isn’t: “Torture”, I link to to that letter by Andrew McCarthy. If you haven’t read it you absolutely should.
He was a profile in courage this week.
See the tea party leaders Jan mentioned above.
Now Lauria.
[21]
rwy: “time will tell how much courage the right has left”
Indeed. All I can say is that each of us needs to be spreading the word FROM here to as many places as possible, and bringing the word TO here from those same places.
We’ve just gotten too used to trusting in the government to leave us mostly alone. The Obama regime has shown that they are NOT going to do so. They want control of everything…NOW!
But we have means, assets, and strength…or will have if we don’t wait too long.
[22]
Much more of o’vomits bravo sierra, and his wall street backers will jump ship.If bondholders feel victimized, there will be no more bond holders for any new corporate enterprise. Are these moonbats so steeped in marxist dialectic that they truly haven’t a freakin clue as to what they are about to fornicate up???
[23]
Nothing on FNC or Drudge yet.
RS picked it up.
I hope it has legs.
[24]
ip727: “Are these moonbats so steeped in marxist dialectic that they truly haven’t a freakin clue as to what they are about to fornicate up???”
They either don’t know…or don’t care. Both are equally scary!
[25]
The investor class, if they had the cajones, could bring this mugabe administration to it’s knees overnight. Without us,socialism fails.
[26]
Drudge must be asleep or dining out. It’s hard to believe he hasn’t picked this up.
[27]
INC, You would think this is ripe for one of his screaming RED headlines.
Maybe he’s waiting for Monday?
[28]
Or he’s being leaned on!!!
[29]
Montana Fires a Warning Shot
[30]
The investor class, if they had the cajones, could bring this mugabe administration to it’s knees overnight. Without us,socialism fails.
Let’s quit talking about it and do it then. They are calling our bluff, so let’s stop bluffing.
[31]
Thanks.
[32]
artist, you’re welcome.
RWY, I’m encouraged by some of the pushback we’ve seen this week. All it takes is for a few to lead and cause some cracks in the wall.
[33]
Well, I will be pulling all our 401k money (such as is left) out of the stock market. We have several ideas on things to do with it until we can touch it without penalties. But the key is to start starving the beast!
[34]
well, yes, INC. But the left will always push back harder. You have to plan ahead 2 steps so you have a plan to push back their pushback.
But regardless, it’s good to see people fighting, telling the truth, and not giving up. They can’t enslave us if we refuse to obey them. They can’t put 30% of the country in jail.
Keep fighting, never give up. The Communists are liars and cowards. Let’s prove it to the nation.
[35]
Excellent work, as always INC.
Obviously, Obama is different than any other President going back to FDR in ruthlessly using the power of government and the Presidency to control the economy. He is ruthless and has the U.S. media solidly behind him.
Regardless of the relationship with FIAT, Chrysler’s future is precarious at best. When I moved to Detroit 19 years ago, I was marketing manager responsible for the Chrysler account at one of its second-tier agencies, so I have a soft spot in my heart for Chrysler. All three vehicles in my family are Chrysler brands.
Had Chrysler not been acquired by Daimler, it would be much stronger today. Right now, Chrysler has fewer popular models and more quality problems than Ford or GM and most imports. For the first time in 20 years, there is not a single Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep model I would consider.
Fiat is not in a particularly strong financial position and has quality problems of its own (there are jokes about FIAT being an acronysm for Fix It at Tony’s). The administration’s concept is for Chrysler to market smaller, fuel-efficient Fiat vehicles in the U.S. The problem is that consumers have a wide range or choices and most (import and domestic)have better quality than Fiat. If you look at European imports, only the luxury models (Mercedes and BMW) have made an impact. Unlike the Asians, the European manufacturers do not design vehicles specifically for the U.S. market.
I was talking with a friend who works for Chrysler’s primary marketing agency, which has only 40 percent of its employee base from 10 years ago. she said everyone is “sitting on pins and needles.”
The failure of either GM or Chrysler will be a devistating blow to the Detroit area. I just hired a part-time project manager (20 hours a week). When word got out, I received five calls asking why I didn’t talk to them. This is for a job that would have been very difficult to fill five years ago.
I am out of the auto industry, but was talking with another friend who still does the bulk of his business with Detroit auto companies. He told me last week that Chrysler and its agencies have no money to spend and GM clients won’t even return phone calls.
Look for Ford to become the dominant domestic manufacturer.
[36]
For the first time in 20 years, there is not a single Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep model I would consider
Not the new Ram, or the 300C with Hemi? Great cars. I’d buy the truck in a heartbeat if I could be sure of my job.
[37]
bc3b – please tell me how Chyrsler is going to produce Fiat type cars and compete with Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hundyia, etc on a cost basis.
This is doomed to fail.
Talk about being stuck on stupid (not you bc3b but the idiots in DC & the UAW who honestly think this will work.).
[38]
Thanks, bc3b, for your kind words and the helpful local input on Detroit.
[39]
Hopefully what Dr Dog said the other day will prove true and some of the smaller specialty US makers will produce the GM and Chrysler-derived cars that will be gone once the companies go under.
I don’t want to live in a country where the only auto choice is some stupid sissy front drive pinwheel Japanese tin can on shopping cart wheels.
Look its the new Schlonda! the Schlonda Maccord!
Look the new Hoyhatsu! the Hoyhatsu Kabuki xls! woo!
[40]
Soon the car adverts will be all in spanish anyway:
Ola! La Nuevo flacaca Hoyhotsui! muy beuno! Hoyhotsui garbonzo dl! ariba!
[41]
screw the japanese cars, they are all subsidized by the Japanese gov. I drove them all my life, but now I’m sick of them.
[42]
it’s inevitable that the UAW collapses. They have refused to be competitive. If you make yourself unemployable, you will be unemployed.
But it’s not a good thing. The entire world is full of people who will take your job for half your salary.
[43]
Right Wing – here is your future Muscle Car – enjoy!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY&feature=PlayList&p=5C2349897024CAE4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14
[44]
Yahoo -
I am not a truck guy, but the rap on the new Ram (as with many recent Chrsyler vehicles) is that they really skimped on the interior.
What happened to Chrysler is really sad because when Iacocca left the company the product pipeline was filled with cars and trucks that were winners – Grand Cherokee, Ram, LH models, Wrangler, Viper (never made a profit, but one heck of an image vehicle), Neon. Chrysler rose from its deathbed to become the innovative, free-wheeling domestic. The Germans put an end to that.
Unfortunately, Iacocca tapped Bob Eaton as his successor.
[45]
It’s True: Toyota Asks Japanese Government-Backed Bank For $2b
We all line up to brag about our japanese cars, while laughing our rear ends off at the collapse of American companies.
That’s clever. look, it turns out the [redacted] car companies are running to the government banks for cash too.
[46]
As the resident Italian, I find all mafia references herein upsetting and I demand an apology.
[47]
The collapse of detroit may have been inevitable. So be it.
But the same thing that happened to them can happen to anyone’s business if the price for service gets low enough.
How would we feel if ALL OUR JOBS went away because of offshore government backed cheap labor?
Not so damn smug, I bet.
[48]
At the time he was hired to head Ford, I was very critical of Mulelly (sp?), but he has done a lot of things right at Ford (trimming costs, improving quality and refusing government funding).
[49]
and I demand an apology.
aww, that’s cute.
[50]
WE TRIED TO WARN THE COUNTRY!!!!
I just bought a FORD.
Screw the Obama Motor Companies!!!
[51]
“Ola! La Nuevo flacaca Hoyhotsui! muy beuno! Hoyhotsui garbonzo dl! ariba!” –Yahoo
This being an Enlish only blog, I have no choice but to use mucho cervesas to clean your mouth out.
[52]
I am not a truck guy, but the rap on the new Ram (as with many recent Chrsyler vehicles) is that they really skimped on the interior.
That was the rap on the previous generation, not the new one, as far as I know. Car and Driver just voted the Dodge the favorite of the domestic trucks, the previous winner was the chevy. That truck beat the Tundra and titan.
[53]
oh who gives a damn about anything anymore. Let everything collapse and it’s everybody for himself, let God sort it all out.
bah.
[54]
Bc. I always found the cherokee to be too small inside and too heavy for the money.
[55]
same as the Toyatsu forerunner. too small inside to sit comfortably. Ridiculously underpowered and drank gas. But they wanted 32k for those things, and people lined up to buy them.
Of course that was the early 90s, when GM cars looked stapled together.
[56]
It’s easy to bash the UAW, but poor leadership did as much to kill the Detroit Three as anyone. Look at this group of losers (Jac Nassar and Billy Ford at Ford; Smith, Stempel and Wagoner at GM; Bob Eaton and the Krauts at Chrysler).
GM has some great models, but incredibly poor marketing. Mark LaNeve, the head of sales and marketing has an IQ that’s lower than his golf handicap). Chevrolet should have increased market share when the new Silverado was introduced a few years back. It didn’t and now it’s the “old man” compared to the F-150 and Ram.
LaNeve is typical of what’s wrong with American companies. How many guys have risen to the top because they are tall, handsome and good golfers – a receipe for disaster,
[57]
As the resident Italian, I find all mafia references herein upsetting and I demand an apology. — Chek
We apologize, but the GodFather was a damn good movie. I would also point out that the movie was about Sicilians.
[58]
Really the domestic makers did not get their crap together until around 1999-2000.
that’s 25 years of garbage. Well, it breaks my heart but that’s what happens when your product mocks your customer base.
Thing is, I know how the jap cars are made, and it would be easy to beat them. Detroit just decided they wouldn’t bother.
[59]
Repub,
I’ve had my F-150 for almost 10 years, and will replace it soon. Howerver, Ford for some reason, doesn’t do too well here in MT, so I been asking around and getting a lot of advice on which way to go: Chevy or Dodge.
Now, because of the Union takeover, I think I’m going to reconsider Ford again. BTW, what model did you get?
[60]
INC,
Obama has another trip wire. In a restructure for Chrysler that went down in either 2002 or 2003 several investors went into a bond deal that in principle underwrote the Chrysler-UAW labor pact. So there are several bond holders that might have the moral high ground. Now if they would only use it.
[61]
I would also point out that the movie was about Sicilians.
Oh never mind. I’ll leave that one alone.
[62]
This deal is doomed to fail for several reasons:
>Fiat is a lousy partner with no experience producing cars for the North American market, and they are acquiring their stake for virtually no investment, only a technology transfer relating to cars nobody wants.
>The UAW contracts which are the biggest problem relative to producing cars at a profit will not be thrown out or renegotiated. The UAW will be the majority owner because of their pension accrual and will be negotiating future contracts with themselves. Fat chance that will improve the business model.
>The capital markets will no longer be accessible to the new company, and the company can only survive going forward on taxpayer subsistence. Washington will not be their friend forever.
Lastly, this bankruptcy process will only be about getting rid of or cramming down the unhappy creditors, and the court will not have the leeway to solve any of the inherent problems that caused the business failure.
Obama Motors will not be your next great story in American industry.
[63]
CT,
Interesting. F-150 does pretty good down here in Texas in the marketplace. Dodge runs a distant third in Texas.
[64]
Yahoo -
I agree. GM has the best SUVs.
For a long time Toyota was the “Teflon” brand. During recent years, they have had quality problems and Toyota dealers treat consumers like dirt. Two years ago Toyota led manufactures in the U.S. in recalls. But the media seems to be willing to overlook the imports’ flaws. In fact, MFG moonlights as the auto editor for the New Orleans paper.
People are starting to catch on. Toyota’s April sales decline was greater than Ford or GM and Ford actually outsold Toyota in April.
[65]
Mullet,
Moody’s has downgraded Fiat. They only have about 12 months of cash on hand. They are a weak partner going into the deal. To increase their ownership right they have to jump through several technical hurdles that they will never accomplish.
[66]
F-150, what else?
[67]
Mulletover -
89% of GM will be owned by the government or the unions – a receipe for disaster.
drdog09 – 25% of vehicle registrations in Texas are oiuckups.
[68]
drdog,
Dodge does very well up here, especially the Cummins diesels (lots of hay and stuff to haul around). People who own them tell me the Cummins has more power than the Powerstrokes.
[69]
repubpundit permalink
WE TRIED TO WARN THE COUNTRY!!!!
I just bought a FORD.
Screw the Obama Motor Companies!!!
Welcome aboard, long time no see.
[70]
Dr. Dog, thanks. I didn’t know that; however, I’m sure Lauria does. I looked briefly at his firm’s site on the web and it’s a huge international firm. Tapper wrote that Lauria is their “Global Practice Head of the Financial Restructuring and Insolvency Group.”
[71]
Hey, repubpundit, and welcome!
[72]
Repubpundit -
Silverado, Ram, GMC Siedrra and Tundra.
drdog09 – How is Tundra selling in Texas (built in Texas, by Texans, for Texans)? Texas plays a major role in its marketing – fairs, rattlesnake roundups, high school football, etc.
[73]
Dr Dog,
I wonder if this New York bankruptcy judge wishes he had drawn a different straw. It could get hot under that black robe this summer with BO in the courtroom.
[74]
Dr. Dog,
Sicily is part of Italy. I accept the apology except that I WAS KIDDING!!!! Damn the Left has done a great job in creating an atmosphere were any outrage over race, sex and ethnicity is quickly met with an apology. It is such a knee jerk reaction. Boy we have a lot of work to do.
BTW, Godfather I and II are two of my all time favorite movies.
[75]
Just saw over on NRO that Jack Kemp died.
[76]
GN
NO! I think he had cancer. Very sad.
[77]
mulletover
“I wonder if this New York bankruptcy judge wishes he had drawn a different straw. It could get hot under that black robe this summer with BO in the courtroom.”
mulletover -
You don’t really think Obama would try to influence the courts, do you? That’s not change you can believe in.
[78]
Chekote – If I remember right, you are from Rome or around Rome.
So, you don’t count since you are not from the south.
[79]
You don’t really think Obama would try to influence the courts……
The marxist has already tossed the Constitution. I don’t think the courts will be an obstacle to his change.
[80]
bc3b, I do see a fair number of Tundras. But it seems that its Ford and Chevy trading who is 1st/2nd every couple of years in licensed vehicles down here.
CT, friend has a Dodge Cummings. It will pull the moon out of its orbit if you could attach a rope. But dang that sucker is noisy.
Mullet, that’s for sure. But then whoever got it probably isn’t too worried. When was the last time you heard of a Bankruptcy Court judge making it to SCOTUS? Its administrative law which is not fast track.
[81]
dr dog – think it is the same judge who had enron and another high profile case.
[82]
Chekote – If I remember right, you are from Rome or around Rome.
So, you don’t count since you are not from the south. — GN
True. You don’t see FI Edelbrock 389’s with Confederate flags on the hood and fried chicken stands till you get at least as far south as Pompeii.
[83]
GN, Oh God please grant me the wish that Obammy blows his mouth in court and gets a 30 day contempt citation. Please!
[84]
I personally find the fact that POTUS is giving press conferences announcing bankruptcy plans of private companies offensive. This is NOT what America is about or should be about.
[85]
GM has the best SUVs.
I have a 2004 Suburban, and I like it, but it does have serious flaws. The suspension is ancient, torsion bar front and solid beam rear. Rides ok generally but on choppy pavement it the rear of the vehicle rocks left/right which is why you want independent suspension. Also the second and third rows in the Suburban were adequate but not good enough for long hauls, with sharp metal edges exposed in the footwells. Kids back there better wear their shoes home from the beach. No need for this stuff. The Suburban is marketed as a roadgoing leer jet, but its interior and ride, while adequate for smooth roads, could be better. The next generation of Suburbans starting in 2007 made several cosmetic revisions but left the suspension and seating flaws in place, naturally.
but no SUV maker had 3 benches plus luggage space, other than the Sub or the Excursion, which i did not like.
Now Ford has the Expedition EL, with 3 benches plus luggage, and fully independent suspension. Much better fit and finish in the second and third rows, and much more comfortable seats in those rows as well.
It’s only weakness is power. 300hp pulling 6kip means it needs a supercharger. I dont consider 14/18 mpg a big deal, but some will say thats too low.
So, if the Expedition EL had been available when I bought, I would be driving one.
[86]
dr dog – a cut and paste from a Yahoo News piece.
NEW YORK – For Chrysler’s sake, it needs a judge who can move it quickly through the Chapter 11 bankruptcy process. By most accounts, Arthur Gonzalez is the right judge.
When it comes to big, high-profile cases, Gonzalez has certainly had his share. He has presided over the Enron and Worldcom bankruptcies, among the biggest cases ever before Lehman Brothers filed in September.
[87]
Drudge must be away. Same flu story over and over. It is so overplay. I friend of mine told me that Parkland is getting tons of people who think they have the flu so they are required to test them. Nearly all of them as just fine.
[88]
Kemp was 74. RIP.
[89]
jack kemp
[90]
Good thing about Suburbans is I can add 60 hp to the motor and air shocks to the car for less than a grand.
Anyway the New Dodge has 390 hp and gets a rated 20 mpg highway. I need to go drive one, but it will put me in a buying mood and I need to make do with my used Crown Vic right now, until the economy improves and I can be more sure my job will last.
The C-Vic has a sohc V8 that is so smooth you can’t tell it’s running. Even smoother than the suburban’s pushrod, which has a little rumble to it.
but the Vic’s v8 is tuned low, and only makes like 220 hp. 300 ft-lbs of torque though, so that does not matter too much. Steering is too light, and seats are not exactly recaros. Great highway cruiser though.
[91]
GN –
Yep I remember him from the Worldcom period. Though I would have to say both of those cases were different. There were really no assets to divy up like Chrysler is. Enron was mostly into trading contracts. Worldcom was using other peoples networks and doing a resale deal. Neither company had a union either.
He’s probably the right guy for the job though.
If the smaller bondholders are successful in holding to their percentage return the 4 big TARP banks are going to look like fools. They could also face shareholder suits too. The whole government plan could crumble in a matter of days once proceedings start.
[92]
Saw a photo opp dealing with this townhall meeting tonight. It’s the first time I’ve heard of these people. Then I ran down this article…
GOP leaders begin outreach effort to re-energize party
[93]
Jack Kemp, the ex-quarterback, congressman,one-time vice-presidential nominee and self-described “bleeding-heart conservative” died Saturday.
Poor guy. Everything is so tainted now. I used to love Tony Snow, but that liar was the biggest amnesty demagogue around, like Medved. Tough to stay in love with these guys.
Kemp was an open borders guy and an Obama-weeper a la Oak Leaf. I am sorry he died but like Snow, I wish he had more courage while he lived.
The people he professes to love are in desperate need of courage right now.
The Lord bless thee and keep thee,
The Lord make His face to shine upon thee
And be gracious unto thee.
The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee
And give thee peace.
[94]
The whole government plan could crumble in a matter of days once proceedings start.
Dr. Dog,
Change I can believe in!
The NYT is reporting one ploy of the administration to try to abrogate the law:
To quote the Financial Times article I linked to above:
I’m not an attorney (where’s Judy?) , this is just what I’m noticing from reading.
[95]
Dr Dog,
Seems the valuation method will be a real point of conflict. I heard the Obama plan had Chrysler valued at $2 billion whereas the bondholders were looking at almost $40 billion. Hence the cramdown of the secured creditors to 29%.
Surely, the company in breakup mode would have assets to cover the secured’s $7 billion. How can the judge ignore this? The Jeep brand alone would be valuable.
[96]
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush,
Good grief…. another Bush :sigh:
[97]
IP, INC, thanks for the welcome. I have tried to get in before, but forgot my password, so had to set up new login and had to change by name from republicanpundit to repubpundit.
Nice site.
[98]
I just met Medved a couple of days ago. He was doing an event with Hugh Hewitt, Mike Gallagher and Rick Perry.
[99]
JustMary
Is there anyway that when you refresh you don’t get back to the home page? Thanks.
[100]
Spare me the Bush/McCain listening tour. Good grief, even Jindal and Romney are on it. Barf. The Northeast trying to define our leadership again.
Everyone on that tour is poison to me, I will never again vote for a soft conservative.
[101]
INC – not being a lawyer, I would say that just because the Senior Creditors gave away their rights does not mean they gave away the rights of lessor Ceditors. Just because I am fourth in line does not give those in front of me the right to allow others behind me to go ahead of me.
[102]
I just met Medved a couple of days ago. He was doing an event with Hugh Hewitt, Mike Gallagher and Rick Perry.
All these guys are amnesty open borders guys and might as well join the Dems. bah.
GOPzombies.com
[103]
Thanks for the link Jan. I really don’t like name “New America”. America is just fine. The name should be the New Republican Party.
[104]
repubpundit,
If you would like to do so, I think you can change your displayed name here on your profile page.
Click on your name at the top of the comment box and then go to your profile, you can enter republicanpundit as your nickname. Update your profile page and then look at your options at “Display name publicly as”. You can choose republicanpundit as the display. Update profile again and I think you would be set.
You still have to log in as repubpundit, but the old name would display.
[105]
gnqanq, it makes sense to me.
[106]
RWY, I think you are being a little tough on Tony….he was doing his job. But I appreciate the prayer you offered for Jack Kemp. If you are a Christian you realize we all have flaws. God bless them and all of us for that matter.
[107]
Thanks, Bruce.
[108]
ip, I’m sorry your link about Jack Kemp is trapped in the spam box. Justrand or JM will have to set it free!
[109]
RWY, I think you are being a little tough on Tony….he was doing his job
He went on the air and lied, repeatedly. He demagogued and race-baited.
His job was contemptible, dishonest and dishonorable. He behaved like a leftist.
I’m not happy to say it, in case you’re wondering…
[110]
I have to say I’m really disappointed that no one has mentioned my headline for this thread. I doubt I’ll ever be able to manage this many puns and double entendres again. I was doing my best to be worthy of the NY Post!
[111]
Anyone selling himself as any sort of conservative, patriot, or servant of the public good would have resigned rather than do what Snow did.
In the end, for all our discussions here, we have not solved the problem, the R party is as full of crooks and liars as the Dems are.
[112]
INC.
Great headline!!!
[113]
INC – you know what they say about a prophet in their own home town.
It is a very good piece and shows what “zero” is up to. He is on par with Dick Nixon and having an enemies list with the intent to destroy them at any cost.
[114]
[115]
RWY…just because you bluster doesnt mean you are right. Those ar4e leftist tactics, kma. Tony Snow was a remarkable Christian man and I think it is small of you to demean him in such vicious terms, you sound like a leftist. You are not God any more than I. He wasnt despicable, buy maybe you are.
[116]
Welcome to the board, repubpundit. *wave*
[117]
RWY
Not Gallagher.
[118]
gnqanq, my earlier smiley was re: repubpundit’s comment, not yours!
Drudge has a link to this in the NYT:
Chrysler’s Fall May Help Administration Reshape G.M.
[119]
Totally disagree with rwy about Tony Snow. He had his opinions and take on things like we all do.
If you didn’t stand where he was on the same issues, that doesn’t make him a bad guy any more than it makes someone like rwy a “bad” guy.
You gotta get over pigeonholing everyone in such a mean-spirited way.
[120]
INC
The New York Post would have stuck COED somewhere in the headline.
[121]
Ip- I freed your post from spam jail.
[122]
BTW: Tony Snow was none of the following:
He went on the air and lied, repeatedly. He demagogued and race-baited.
His job was contemptible, dishonest and dishonorable. He behaved like a leftist.
Snow was a talented, warm, gracious, Christian family man. He pragmatically disagreed with people on the left, but didn’t cut them down sarcastically. He was a gentleman, was respected by most if not all he worked with…I can’t say enough kind things about such a kind commentator. You don’t run across many like him, which is why I don’t like it when someone tries to run him down after his early death.
[123]
I think that I have got republicanpundit back!!
[124]
republicanpundit
Cheers!
Now you are yourself again!
[125]
Hello to all my old friends!!!
I’M BACK
[126]
Tony also took on a job he believed in while he knew he was not long for this world. He never took cheap shots at anyone….I think because he was very Christian. If you review his columns you find a consistent conservative voice. Taking cheap shots at him is pretty sophmoric.
[127]
RWY…just because you bluster doesnt mean you are right. Those ar4e leftist tactics, kma. Tony Snow was a remarkable Christian man and I think it is small of you to demean him in such vicious terms, you sound like a leftist. You are not God any more than I. He wasnt despicable, buy maybe you are.
Look, I’m not in a yelling mood, but if you are going to cut some guy slack because he is a liar, and lies in the conduct of his job, and goes on TV and Radio and lies repeatedly and demagougues the amnesty issue, and mocks the concerns of honest Americans who want to see their lives and property protected and their duly enacted laws enforced, well that’s your prerogative.
Bruce… i don’t know how else to explain it to you. What Tony Snow did was dishonest, despicable, and dishonorable. We all have to die sometime, but the least you can do is live your life with honor. It’s is clear to me from Tony’s actions that he failed to do that.
You don’t like it, fine. I am not going to apologize to you, ever.
Totally disagree with rwy about Tony Snow. He had his opinions and take on things like we all do.
If you didn’t stand where he was on the same issues, that doesn’t make him a bad guy any more than it makes someone like rwy a “bad” guy.
You gotta get over pigeonholing everyone in such a mean-spirited way.
God Almighty I am sick and tired of wimps and politically correct sissies supposedly on the conservative side.
Tony Lied. This is not a matter of opinion. Telling the truth about someones actions is not pigeonholing. Stop behaving like such a coward and call things what they are.
If you attempt to deceive and cheat millions of Americans out of their national inheritance YOU ARE A BAD GUY.
I’m not sorry for telling the truth.
[128]
Oh, I get it, YOU are the arbiter of truth. Here I thought it was either God or Obama. I guess I know I need to offer my prayers to RWY tomorrow at church, he is the judge of all men.
[129]
I think because he was very Christian.
that is not a license to lie to millions of Americans.
If you review his columns you find a consistent conservative voice. Taking cheap shots at him is pretty sophmoric.
……
……
it’s not a cheap shot, my friend. It is the truth. It’s not my problem if that offends you.
[130]
PS….man is flawed, Tony knows that, apparently you dont.
[131]
OK hot shot, give me some examples, that were not from his days when he was working for W.
[132]
Jan – I don’t think Tony Snow was as clean as some people make him out to be. He was in the world of politics which is never an honest profession.
Was he decent – yes. Was he kind – yes. He appeared to be a gentleman who lived his life on his principles. But at the same time he was less than honest several times, particularly on Immigration Reform. He carried the water for the GOP, particularly the Neo-Cons.
Like any person, he had his good points and he had his bad points.
[133]
Believe it or not rwy, but you are not God. Just because you say that someone lied doesn’t make it so. That is your perspective, possibly others as well. But, as for me, and apparently Bruce, Tony was the epitome of how honorable men live their lives. Like Bruce I thoroughly enjoyed his columns, his stint on Fox, when he took over some spots on talk radio. He was a good man!
Enough said!
[134]
Oh, I get it, YOU are the arbiter of truth. Here I thought it was either God or Obama. I guess I know I need to offer my prayers to RWY tomorrow at church, he is the judge of all men.
What a ridiculous remark. Look, people trusted Tony Snow like they trusted W, and he lied and demagoged and race baited, and tried to sell Americans’ inheritance to Marxist squatters from Mexico.
Perhaps in your view, calling attention to that is playing God, or whatever. I cannot speak to that, nor would I ever care to.
[135]
http://www.anncoulter.com/
Ann’s piece on ‘torture’ is right on the money–and funny as hell.
“People pay to have a lot rougher stuff done to them at Six Flags Great Adventure.”
[136]
Believe it or not rwy, but you are not God.
Where does this childish idiocy come from. Argue like adults, please.
Just because you say that someone lied doesn’t make it so.
I don’t claim it does. I say he lied because he CLEARLY LIED. Jan you aer running into all sorts of problems with criticizing Obama if you can’t see what Tony did was lie. Over and over.
But, as for me, and apparently Bruce, Tony was the epitome of how honorable men live their lives.
That’s up to you.
I believe men who claim to be honorable do not lie, especially to millions of Americans who count on them to tell the truth. And if they do, they are not honorable.
[137]
gnqanq
I know everyone has their flaws. But, overall, Snow showed more decency than most in that labyrinth call DC politics. I think the policy of immigration reform that he supported was not the same one supported by many conservatives. But, that’s not lying, that is having a different POV. He never tried to hide his beliefs to create a better standing with Conservatives. He was who he was. I admired the man, whether I agreed with him on everything or not.
[138]
You are the slanderer, RWY, not I….I really dont get it. It seems more important to you to demean people that lived good lives and did their best than to just get on with constructive ideas. Nobody trusted Tony, they listened to him. And he was a damn sight better Press Secretary then we ever had before. And your response is emotional, you know you are wrong to attack people whose heart you dont know.
[139]
Jan – that is where I differ from you. Tony Snow did LIE about Immigration Reform. He also showed very bad taste in playing the Race Card in Immigration Reform. If I had not heard it myself while listening to Rush one day (Rush interviewed him on air), I would not have believed it. That caused me to have less respect for the man.
Like I said, he was decent, kind and a gentleman but a man with flaws like all of us.
[140]
My 2cents on Tony Snow
I respected him for his principled beliefs prior to working for the Bush admistration but as soon as he started spouting off Bush’s left-wing gibberish, I still respected the man–but I never trusted him again.
[141]
We have to be honest here. We cannot embrace every Republican that comes along (or dies) simply because they were Rs. ( I mean you can if you want to but we did that with W and look where we are now.
Everyone does it when an ox is gored they don’t like.
Chekote howled when we exposed Rudy
the Hucksters tried to shout us down when we went after Huck
The McCain people called us the German American Bund.
Tony Snow may be with the Lord and he may not. I have no idea how God judges people for their political beliefs, or if he does. And if he was a Christian he’s forgiven for lying.
but he lied. The American people counted on him to tell the truth, and he lied. Like his boss.
And that is the truth.
before you shed too many tears for old Tony, let me remind you of another thing he did: He said, on the night of the 2006 elections when the Dems were winning the Congress, that the good thing about Dems taking over was that now they
could get immigration reform thru.
I’m sorry in my opinion that is not honorable.
[142]
Hey janzam, I owe you a thanks from a post eons ago, glad to see you are here. Gotta go now, have at it RWY! Tony and I must be demons.
[143]
A quote from the Dalai Lama during an interview:
Knowing a good man when you see one
I bet the Dalai Lama would have said the same thing about Tony Snow, too, despite what politics they agreed or disagreed with! It’s about one’s character.
[144]
Look, my church believes in immigration, and I have wonderful hispanic friends. Myself, I am with you…..that doesnt make the rest of them devils and it doesnt mean Tony lied, only God knows that, not you. Goodnight pal.
[145]
Nice to see you too Bruce. Always enjoy your posts.
[146]
You are the slanderer, RWY, not I….I really dont get it. It seems more important to you to demean people that lived good lives and did their best than to just get on with constructive ideas. Nobody trusted Tony, they listened to him. And he was a damn sight better Press Secretary then we ever had before. And your response is emotional, you know you are wrong to attack people whose heart you dont know.
I say you are the one being emotional, not me. And you slandered me, while I was telling the truth. Not that I care.
[147]
Yeah, Janzam, nice. Peace be with all of you.
[148]
If you dont care RWY, why respond?
[149]
Look, my church believes in immigration, and I have wonderful hispanic friends. Myself, I am with you…..that doesnt make the rest of them devils and it doesnt mean Tony lied, only God knows that, not you. Goodnight pal.
I know he lied, and I believe that you are a fool and easily led. And your “wonderful hispanic friends” have been voting Dem for 40 years.
See, the truth comes out does it not? You are pro-amnesty, like Jan is.
Anyone pro amnesty: Why do you even post on these boards. Your policy will result in turning Texas deep blue.
Do you realize this? Do you want this?
[150]
just tell the truth, Mr Christian.
[151]
Gnqanq
My POV is influenced by what I hear, and how I interpret it. I did not hear that interview with Rush. And, what comments I remember Snow making on Immigration Reform, although different than my own, I did not see as “lying,” just saying it how he saw it.
Anyway, thanks for your reasoned comments and clarification.
[152]
rwy — step away from the hyperbole and give it a rest.
[153]
And tell your “wonderful hispanic friends”, please, to obey the law like all other Americans must, if they are illegal.
And if legal, ask them why they feel they must vote for socialism. Can you do that, in the nicest way possible? Or are they “too wonderful”?
[154]
#
rwy — step away from the hyperbole and give it a rest.
You are wrong and dishonest Jan. Nothing I said has been hyperbole. You are like Chekote, when you get pinned down you start lying.
It does not become you.
[155]
And, what comments I remember Snow making on Immigration Reform, although different than my own, I did not see as “lying,” just saying it how he saw it.
“How he saw it” has nothing to do with it. He knew the truth and he lied anyway. There is no excuse for this.
[156]
Chekote howled when we exposed Rudy.
Hey, don’t drag me into this.
[157]
RWY, I would like to say one thing about this argument. Do you notice how gnqanq was able to disagree with Jan without getting her back up about it?
Is your purpose solely to say you’re right and why or to be able to not only say why you’re right but to persuade others as well? If you can’t persuade them this time, do you leave them willing to listen to you on another topic later?
[158]
Geez, RWY, you dont even read my posts,,,,,sober up, see ya. You are starting to sound like Oak Leaf.
[159]
That said, I’ll briefly derail my own thread and mention this article from January:
The Importance of Jack Kemp
Kemp’s words to his children when they would leave the house:
Be a leader.
[160]
INC, I can’t worry about any of that.
My point is simple, and Tony Snow lied, and I believe it’s fairly easy to show that, and I will continue to calmly defend that statement, because I know it’s true.
Anyone who reads Jan’s comments knows why she has a problem with me, while GN can say the same thing and she’s fine with it.
But I don’t want to get into that either.
People who want to jump all over others for telling the truth are the ones who should examine their motives, really.
Of course I noticed that INC.
…..
people don’t change, ok? Jan is not going to come around to an anti-amnesty position, any more than sweet talking Chekote will make her pro-life.
[161]
Geez, RWY, you dont even read my posts,
No, I only quote them. Silly me.
[162]
RWY
Would you please let me out of this? Thanks.
[163]
Scroll down to play the audio
[164]
What is the point of defeating Obama if all we are doing is re-electing the party of Bush?
Let’s keep in mind all the mistakes that led to the crushing R defeats, and who was responsible for making them, and who was fine with the Dems running Congress, and wanted to look on the bright side and work with them on the most far left border philosophy any administration has ever had.
You all realize this I assume? If you support amnesty for illegal immigrants, you are in line with the world’s farthest left political organizations, like ANSWER, ACORN, etc. on that issue. And don’t forget the Obama admin. supports this as well.
Please realize this. Realize that if NC, VA, FL, OH, stay blue, the GOP can never win agian, and if amnesty passes, this will happen. Along with Texas, AZ, CO, GA.
Now where does that leave us politically.
In my opinion, we should not concentrate so much on group hug therapy that we forget what the right and wrong of the last 8 years was, and how it led to the current situation.
Both men and women should be capable of doing this.
[165]
If the GOP cannot find a way to tell ALL the people who live here that:
1 America is a nation of laws
2 You can’t break the law because you want to
3 The immigration laws exist to protect people’s lives and property, not your feelings
4 Immigrants must obey the laws like everyone else.
5 America’s constitutional republic will not endure if millions of social democrats come here from all over the world, no matter where they are from
6 Americans have a right to say who gets to come here and stay with us.
Then honestly, people, there is no point in even having elections anymore. The GOP will either disappear or merge with the Dems.
And no feelings or group hugs will change that. And I’m sorry if that offends anyone.
So far, the GOP has done nothing but tell folks who believe in 1-6 above, to get out. And look how that worked out in the election.
[166]
Actually Glenn Beck nuked Tony Snow faster and more completely than Ingraham did. Tony basically said “Bye Glenn” and left the show.
[167]
RWY
The man is dead. Let it go.
[168]
RWY–
The
manUS is dead. Let it go.There, fixed that for you, Chekote
[169]
any more than sweet talking Chekote will make her pro-life.
I will tell exactly what will make me pro-life, the day I start believing that government can make better choices than the individual along with their family, doctor and clergy.
[170]
wow…me and Mrs. Justrand go away for an evening of listening to (splendid, btw) BarberShop Quartets and, uh…a bit of “stuff” happened…
I’d like to put the Tony Snow kerfuffle to rest…as he is at rest and a richly deserved one at that.
My only comment on Tony Snow is that he played a VERY bad hand as best he could. The commnunications “strategy” (in quotes because they never HAD one) left him little wiggle room…even less than the Spokesperson normally has.
I truly believe that HE believed he could nudge things towards a better reconciliation with America and with the republican Party…but as has been pointed out here he failed miserably.
Lastly, let’s remember that the man was, obviously, deathly ill during this time, though putting on a very game face! So whatever abilities he MIGHT have had to influence and/or resist the nonsensical non-strategy of the Bush administration he did in fact fail.
All that said…he is at his final peace, and I would suggest (and ask) that we leave him there to rest.
thank you
[171]
Bill Clinton could not have said it better.
[172]
I meant Chekote’s remark above, not Rand’s.
[173]
Hmmm, if I do say so myself, Tony Snow WAS very polite in that interview with Laura. Let’ s forget what he said about the border.
Gotta run, everybody. Coaching the daughers’s basketball team today. Be good.
[174]
I kinda figured that
[175]
Great piece from George Will regarding the state of California. Is this what the US is going to look like under Obama? Scary stuff.
This is why I don’t like the current GOP talking points of the Dem “Spend too much. Tax too much. Borrow too much.” They need to draw real contrasts. Not just offer to slow down.
[176]
tony: “Coaching the daughers’s basketball team today”
Go get ‘em!!! Good luck & cheers!
Justrand
[177]
if it’s any consolation chekote, the people of California are (as of now) SOUNDLY rejecting every single one of the new spending measures!!
Now, in the next 30 days the State is gonna be FLOODED with Union money to try and sway the folks…but here’s a link from Hugh Hewitt [hattip!
]of a recent survey:
http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/b55aae45-04bd-4a8d-adba-a0f869284d86
ALL losing…except the one that would limit Legistlator’s salaries!!
[178]
We’re all just gonna have to learn to be good Democrats, I guess.
[179]
Media Jewelsfrom the past about Kemp’s pro-welfare, pro-amnesty, pro-affirmative action views…
Ah, the media….
[180]
The press, as usual, loves Republicans who validate the left’s agenda…
[181]
rwy: “We’re all just gonna have to learn to be good Democrats, I guess.”
nah…we’re just gonna have to keep fighting, picking the most important fights, and shaping the message and the battlefield to get results!
It is the nature of the Left to overreach…BADLY and consistently! The cheap remake of “The Godfather” that the Chrysler mess has become is a perfect example (thx again, INC).
The Obama Reich is SO convinced that they can say and do ANYTHING, that they don’t even TRY to be smooth…and instead just threaten a lawyer representing NORMAL AMERICANS who happened to invest in Chrysler. When this lawyer risks his “life” (whether livelihood, reputation or ACTUAL life!) to bring the facts foward it knocks our Dear Leader’s minions for a loop!
Truth and facts are to the Left as garlic and an outstretched cross are to vampires!
[182]
the media will spin every aspect of Jack Kemp’s life to make it appear that he ADORED all things that the Obama regime adores. That is not a fair or accurate representation of his life.
From what you posted:
CNN anchor Judy Woodruff declared: “On welfare, up through the last few years, he’s advocated more moderate policies than those that were passed this month by the Republican-controlled Congress. Jack Kemp does not like the idea of taking money — yanking money away from welfare mothers with small children.”
ANYONE who can call THAT piece of S**T “journalism”…or even “commentary” is obviously a fan of Goebbles…and the modern media!
So they take Kemp’s stand..decide they like it more than another Repbulicans…and use it to claim that the rest of the Repub Party wants to “yank money away from welfare mothers with small children”
disgusting!
[183]
Proposition 187, the punitive anti-illegal immigration measure in California.
So not wanting to take away food from your family to give it to the uninvited guest is punitive? This is insanity.
[184]
shaping the message and the battlefield to get results!
Bingo!
[185]
Jack Kemp does not like the idea of taking money — yanking money away from welfare mothers with small children.”
Sure let’s not YANK money from welfare mothers. Let’s YANK money from working mothers.
[186]
Mullet,
Yeah the Jeep brand would be worth somebody snatching up. Like say LMC that make the military hummer.
GN you are right but for a different reason. Bonds having a junior position only get that way via contract. Otherwise the $$ get paid out by date of issuance. Or at least that has been my exposure to the process. Going over to Cerberus Capital Management who is the majority owner they don’t list Chrysler as an investment which is interesting. CCM also owns a stake in GMAC another ‘winner’ in the automotive sweepstakes.
[187]
chekote, the media in California is almost 100% in the tank for all things Left. The OC Register is the sole exception…and they do a reasonably good job of swimming upstream. But reality is rearing up and biting California in the butt…and even heavily medicated California is starting to wake up and say: “HUH?”
the election in one month will be a VERY interesting referendum on the Left’s tax & spend (& spend & spend) policy!
As I mentioned, the Unions are starting to FLOOD the airwaves, using language like RWY clipped from Judy Woodriff above!
We’ll start to hear how NOT passing their new spending will:
– yank money away from mothers with small children
– decimate the fuzzy bunny population
– limit police protection to M-F, 9 a.m – 5 p.m.
– force Daisy Duck into prostitution in order to provide sustenance for Huey, Duey and Looey
– prevent the swallows from returning to Capistrano
and (scary music) MUCH WORSE!!!
[188]
JustRand
We just have to come up with a campaign to counter them. Start making fun of them.
[189]
i think I just did
[190]
For a music back drop, maybe the old Kenny Rogers tune – ‘Just Dropped in to See What Condition my Condition was in’. Remixed to ‘Just Dropped in to See What State my State was in’.
[191]
dr.dog…if the Unions go “all in” and reverse the current poll numbers then the State of California will absolutely NOT recover for decades! Luckily, thus far, the people of this State seem to get it.
BUT, in this State we have a MASSIVE illegal alien population that has been MASSIVELY registered to vote…as Democrats, naturally. Unless that fraud is caught and stopped they will steal the election!
Pray for us!
[192]
from Kausfiles
[193]
OT, But dynamite. Bill Whittle rips Jon Stewart. Link
[194]
INC
I left after my final comment last night, but scrolled through the posts that followed till the end of the thread.
Your comment about gnqanq’s conversation with me regarding Tony Snow was very constructive, and could be applied to the Conservative movement as a whole.
To be firm in one’s values is commendable. But, one can cross the line to becoming destructive if, in their adamancy to yield to nothing but the “truth” as they see it, they begin to discredit everyone and everything that does not follow their line of thinking to the “T.”
I believe when you go down that road of being belligerent and bellicose in your views people begin to drop away not only from you, but from the movement being represented by you. And, becoming “smaller” in numbers is not going to make a movement necessarily stronger. Being incendiary to other people’s viewpoints and thoughts does nothing to enlarge or clarify the dialogues that must be done if anything is to be turned around in this country.
This blog, after all, is but a microcosm of the country. And, people who shoot others down for a flickering hue of difference in their thought train — well, I just don’t think this is way to build bridges or coalitions between generally like-minded people.
rwy is continuously saying I am pro-amnesty, which is simply not true. He even linked another poster into his delusions when they merely said they “liked” Mexicans. Normally I just leave his rantings alone. But, they do get tiring when he is constantly putting words into other peoples’ mouths, taking it upon himself to be the grand interpreter of who is what in a blog.
My thoughts on immigration are certainly not as rigid as his are. But, while the means of many issues don’t always match up, isn’t it the same ends where most want to meet? These “ends” is where the glue is, and the “means” is where the energies of coherant and helpful discourse would be better placed.
[195]
GREAT CLIP, dr.dog…well spent 16 minutes!
thx!!!
[196]
janzam…thank you for that wonderful comment, both summarizing and analyzing the state of the Conservative movement…and of this blog!
I would urge all BJG’ers to read janzam’s comment…slowly.
I truly believe that everyone here…everyone…has more to gain by focusing on our common goals than by focusing on our subtle (or not so subtle) differences. Especially when those differences are not in the desired goal…but rather in the approach TO that goal!
thx janzam!!
breakfast beckons…back in a few.
[197]
The posts speak for themselves, jan, and they betray neither belligerence nor bellicosity but a simple focus on the historical record, with a lament about courage and the results of failing to employ it.
Come on now. Gn said the same thing I said. You agreed with him but came after me.
That’s fine, I am thick skinned and you can pound me all you like it won’t bother me.
I stand by my stated fact, and would simply say I focused on what actually happened and the consequences of it, whereas you wanted to cast a fog over the period and keep up the pretense of warm feelings.
Again that is your prerogative as well, but I am surely free to dispute that characterization, so I chose to.
[198]
We must all ask ourselves what is the goal here, in my opinion.
Defeating Obama and the left’s tyranny, is the goal, correct? well, then ought we not be brutally honest about the various webs (seemingly coming from all sides) that tie our hands and make it more difficult to do this?
And if this is true, we should not hesitate to call to the carpet those who go along with these things, or assist in their becoming the conventional wisdom.
Is it not clear to everyone here, that the same demagoguery that is used in the immigration debate, can and will be used in the entire political arena, to stifle our dissent against the unchecked growth of federal power and largesse?
I think the answer to that is obvious, personally. I would hope that we would not pull punches, but dedicate ourselves to
life
liberty
pursuit of happiness
in that order, and call that which violates this foundation what it is, and calmly reason with those that get their plumage in a knot about it.
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Bad news for Chrysler – According to rasmussen, only 25% woulod buy a car from a bankrupt company.
Only 25% Would Buy A Car From A Bankrupt Company
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And to the extent I have not been calm, I owe everyone an apology. I tend to shout on the life issue a bit, and will try to reel that in. I won’t make an excuse for it, what seems simple to me in the extreme may not to others, even if I can’t figure out why sometimes.
I did not shout with Bruce or Jan last night however, so I would like the arguments to remain merit based, if possible.
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I appreciate your feedback Justrand.
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rwy…I don’t so much “pull my punches” as use a different to style to connect them to various chins!
that said…I have used this quote from the ‘Magnificent Seven’ to descibe you over time:
“He’s a good gun. We aren’t going to a church social.”
it remains true…and I would ask all folks here to consider it.
But, rwy, I would ask you to consider that the other folks on this blog are ALSO “good guns” in the pursuit of our common goal: saving this nation!!!
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bc3b,
Odd numbers if one considers some facts –
Studebaker still exists — Avanti Motors.
Delorean still exists — DMC outside of Austin.
GMC MH as a brand still exists — I can order all parts for them from the owner of the parts/design and its not GM.
Somebody will pick up the parts side of the business. It can be very profitable when done right. The public are sheeple. I would consider a Ram PU even today.
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dr.dog: “I would consider a Ram pickup even today.”
so would I, but mainly because I think they’re just leaving the keys in them at the car lots!!
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But, rwy, I would ask you to consider that the other folks on this blog are ALSO “good guns” in the pursuit of our common goal: saving this nation!!!
I understand that very well. And I would argue that replacing the Obamunists with Big-government, open borders Rs, would be a pointless effort, no matter how well disposed we feel toward them personally.
And I remind all here that what really happened on this thread was that I was attacked for stating a historical fact that some didn’t wish to remember.
When I previously stated the antebellum South’s addiction and justifications for slavery, or the the blatant incompatibility of the life, liberty, and pursuit meme with the attempt to couch abortion in small government clothing, I get the same reactions.
Nevertheless I believe it is important that we get used to telling the truth to
each other, and hearing it.
Example:
I have German family. I have heard for many years, all the justifications for WW2 aggressions and the songs of courage and “death before dishonor” themes that people in the German army used to prop up each other’s courage as they fought the Red Army in 44-45.
I received the same coldness I get from some of the posters here, when I spoil the fond remembrances of “Gott mit uns” with historical facts about the suffering in eastern Europe visited by the German Army.
to me, it is far more important that the truth be told even about little things, and that people be unafraid to state it, than to cover everything up with a smile.
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OK, Justrand. Here’s the poser. Do you want to save the Nation or defeat Liberalism? They are not exactly the same thing I am afraid. Examples –
A) Defeat Liberalism. The liberal constituency has a flaw. You can’t maintain a liberal welfare state and have open borders. Fiscally impossible over the long period. To defeat it, merely get a CIR that has no border enforcement, immediately issues social security cards upon entry and requires only 10 quarters of employment to collect. The fiscal collapse that follows a decade later will have destroyed Liberalism. Unfortunately so to the Nation.
B) Save the Nation. Go Nationalist. Modify the Constitution ala Venezuela to strong man rule. Borders are maintained. Illegals are summarily deported. 1st Amendment is modified restricting speech. People are required to save for their own retirement. Currency is restored. Prison population rises. The Nation is saved but at what costs?
Extreme examples but for a point. At this juncture it is doubtful there is a middle ground that will have a successful outcome. But maybe I am just being a pessimist.
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dr.dog: “OK, Justrand. Here’s the poser. Do you want to save the Nation or defeat Liberalism? They are not exactly the same thing I am afraid.”
hmmm…I believe that defeating Liberalism is the first step to saving the Nation! How’s that?
and it IS the Liberals/Progresssives that are in favor of “Modifying the Constitution ala Venezuela to strong man rule.”…not me.
I’m committed to the Constitution itself…not modifying or ignoring it to satisfy the power hungry Left OR Right. Right now though it is the LEFT that is set on a course to seize and wield dictatorial power in this country.
“Saving the nation” right now means stopping THEM!
but that’s just me…
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rwy: “to me, it is far more important that the truth be told even about little things, and that people be unafraid to state it, than to cover everything up with a smile.”
[sorry...I couldn't resist!]
p.s. I don’t try to “cover everything up with a smile”…but I DO try to ensure that the reasoning (which we have an abundance of here) not get overshadowed by passions (which we ALSO have an abundance of here).
but I don’t want to tamper the passions either! interesting juggling act…but if we can’t “juggle” all that here, then Conservatives across this country won’t be able to either. Hence my continuing efforts to find common ground at least amongst us here.
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so would I, but mainly because I think they’re just leaving the keys in them at the car lots!!
–Justrand
WhoHoo!! GMC is having the same problem! Read an article where people are getting the around about returning their leases as the lots are full of GM SUV’s.
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but that’s just me…
Just thought I would ask.
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Justrand, you are not the one trying to cover anything up. And really, the point I was making about Tony Snow was a very minor one, unless you expand that to a characteristic of the entire R party.
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Justifying the labeling of people — Obamunists with Big-government, open borders Rs — brands that are way beyond the scope of the opinions expressed by some here, is intimidating. It wrings out “extravagant myths” by certain individuals as to what they construe others to believe in, totally sidelining the multitudes shades of gray which colors most issues. It is a self-defeating tactic.
Jack Kemp was profiled on Fox this morning. And, one of his most remembered traits was an ability to enthusiastically combine conservatism with reaching out to others in a big tent philosophy. He was a choir boy for tax cuts, believing in helping small business, but he did so in an “inclusive” way. He was an “open minded” kind of guy, listening to people and then having a conversation with them, weeding out their discreptancies of thought, rather than just slamming their character. Some people look at this as a weakness. I believe it is a “skill” — an important “people skill” to combine similar beliefs, implementing them into tangible action.
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A missive from Steyn –
link.
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geez, dr.dog…I put up an entire thread on Steyn’s article!
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Justifying the labeling of people — Obamunists with Big-government, open borders Rs — brands that are way beyond the scope of the opinions expressed by some here, is intimidating.
I never suggested that “some here” fit that definition, I had Snow and Kemp, and W, more in mind.
Some people look at this as a weakness. I believe it is a “skill” — an important “people skill” to combine similar beliefs, implementing them into tangible action.
See above on Kemp’s positions on amnesty, welfare reform and affirmative action. He was in favor of all of us continuing to lie to each other.
Now, I didnt say that made him a bad man. I simply recited the fact of his lefty positions on these issues.
Jan, do you admit that Tony Snow lied, as Gn has told you?
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J,
No argument there!
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Do you have a link for this? I would be interested in reading it. We are near the end of our Honda lease and they are offering us pretty cool things to stay. Is this what you are saying? Or are they not taking cars back that came off of leases?
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Justrand
I do believe you have a tough juggling act. And, you finesse it with some of the very “people skills” I was referring to. Indiscriminately lambasting people does little to grow a blog, nor is useful to grow 50%+ in a country.
Tony Snow may have been a minor point to some, but then why did they make such a major noise in demeaning him? I emailed Mr. Snow during his illness, and was quite fond of the man. A person like him doesn’t deserve the epitaph that was delivered here last night — people who then went on to degrade those who defended Snow.
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but then why did they make such a major noise in demeaning him
I made one post, mentioning it, and got chastised, and defended myself. As necessary, which turned out to be quite a challenge.
people who then went on to degrade those who defended Snow.
Please cite an example of degrading those that defended Snow.
[220]
rwy
I don’t want to beat this thing into the ground any more than we have to, as that isn’t useful either.
This isn’t a matter of “right and wrong” which always seems to be your MO in saying the things you do. It’s the matter of decency and decorum in referring to another individual who did more good in the world than bad, and who is now dead.
As far as whether TS lied or not…all, I know for sure is that he was the spokesman for Bush’s immigration policy which was not condoned by conservations. He had a tricky job of standing up there among hostile reporters on the left and equally hostile conservatives on the right and mitigate the information in the best way he knew how.
My respect for TS, though, extended beyond his immigration policy, to the whole man. Period!
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JM,
Its a personal account story. Link. But it probably being played out across the country.
[222]
It’s the matter of decency and decorum in referring to another individual who did more good in the world than bad, and who is now dead.
and what of the decency and decorum he owed the American people as secpress? May that not be spoken of?
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I don’t think many would consider Snow a conservatives conservative. But Snow had more guts than anyone else in that town combined. To leave what was a high grossing gig in media/radio, cancer that could end you in short order, and family responsibilities. Then to chuck that and take a lesser income situation on the belief he could make a difference is not something you see in Foggy Bottom that often. You certainly won’t see it in the halls of Congress, who are our supposed ‘leaders’ making that kind of sacrifice.
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It was good to see him there, he was very effective. Until that is, his own party stopped listening when he said:
Illegal immigration is nothing but a traffic ticket
The 2007 CIR bill contains all we need to make the border secure
You cannot have border security without CIR (amnesty) because it wouldn’t work.
(no explanation for why so, obv they didnt want it to. Sen Lucy said after CIR lost, in response to “why dont you simply enforce the laws”, that “there are no votes for that”
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(no explanation for why so, obv they didnt want it to. Sen Lucy said after CIR lost, in response to “why dont you simply enforce the laws”, that “there are no votes for that” — as quoted by RWY.
There in lies the problem. Irrespective of whether CIR is the topic or not. The problem with Washington is votes are for sale and its no secret. If we suspended Congress for a decade but funded the enforcement provisions that are already on the books much of this country would self-right to proper trim.
Till the mind set changes to a “we need to repeal….” I am not much in favor of voting for any candidate.
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true dat.