Glenn Beck Agrees With Van Jones:
Personnel Is Policy
Coming of age in the 60s and 70s meant reading Marshall McLuhan, who was famously known for writing, The Medium Is The Message; the way in which you convey an idea directs the communication and impact of the idea. Medium impacts the message, but who is deciding the message and the medium?
Green Czar, Van Jones, has said Personnel Is Policy. That’s very revealing and very insightful. I happen to agree. Apparently Glenn Beck does as well.
During the campaign, the president said, you want to know what my policies are, look to the people I surround myself. So we did.
Van Jones said the same thing: “personnel is policy.” What does this tell us? Well, in the case of Jones and several others in the administration, it says the president has an agenda that is radical, revolutionary and in some cases, Marxist.
As I’ve been in the hospital the last few days, I have been able to read and watch television. Tonight I caught some of Glenn Beck. He did an excellent dissection of Van Jones, repeating some things and adding audio of Van Jones and video of Valerie Jarrett giving an endorsement of Van Jones last month to the Netroots Nation meeting. Tonight at Power Line I found the clip played by Beck. It was produced by Naked Emperor News and is available on Breitbart.tv.
UPDATE: Michelle Malkin in Van Jones, Valerie Jarrett, Barack Obama & do-it-yourself vetting Updated, has this transcript up of Valerie Jarrett’s words (a word or two seem to have been omitted in the transcription but they don’t alter the meaning:
JARRETT:. You guys know Van Jones? [Applause. Moderator injects: "This is his house apparently."]
JARRETT: Oooh. Van Jones, alright! So, Van Jones. We were so delighted to be able to recruit him into the White House. We were watching him, uh, really, he’s not that old, for as long as he’s been active out in Oakland. And all the creative ideas he has. And so now, we have captured that. And we have all that energy in the White House.
__________
H/T: Wikipedia, Glenn Beck/FOX News, Power Line, Naked Emperor News, Breitbart.tv, Michelle Malkin.
[1]
I think Beck said the Van Jones audio is from earlier this year, but I haven’t been able to verify that yet online.
If you’ve seen this, my apologies for the repetition. It was so revealing that I thought it was important to post.
Talk amongst yourselves–I’m tired and I’ll see you later!
[2]
One of the things I LOVE about this blog is that the threads move fast. We have a bunch in one day. Unlike other blogs where one single thread can be up for 3 days in a row. Great work guys.
[3]
Imagine the media uproar had Bush appointed someone half as far to the right as Jones is to the left.
[4]
INC, Great piece! But take care of yourself!
[5]
Van Jones audio is from April 2008. I’m definitely not hitting on all cylinders at the moment! I’d looked at the audio and the date failed to register.
[6]
You’re right, Dr. D! No more tonight!
Listen if you didn’t catch this–it’s truly shocking and revealing.
[7]
Nobody bite INC’s fingers. They type great posts too often to be wasted on eating…
[8]
Another one that darwin missed
[9]
This communist race-baiter needs to go, and now. It is bad enough he is an avowed communist with radical roots. Now we learn he believes Bush allowed 9/11 to happen. This is beyond the pale to have this clown in government, and in close proximity to the Oval Office.
I think if Obama doesn’t fire him, he will be a cancer growing on the Administration to coin a term from Watergate. Pretty soon, Jones and others like him in the President’s circle will bring Obama down, in spite of the absence of an honest press.
Krauthamer was outraged, as was Steven Hayes, on the Fox panel tonight. Pretty soon, the heat will be so bad, the MSM will have to take notice. Even today, the Washington Post is calling for Charlie Rangel to step down.
Rangel’s bad, but Van Jones is radioactive.
[10]
One thing you have to admit about Van Jones is that he is a smart strategist, pragmatic and sees the process of “change” through the wisdom of “steps and stages.”
All I have to say is he is a man to be reckoned with! I only wish we had someone equally agressive and “pragmatic” on the conservative side.
Thanks for the video, INC. It was very educational to take a look into one of the heads of the other side.
Hope you feel stronger in the morning!
[11]
We need these cancerous toads to stay on,thus becoming a millstone around captain bullshit’s neck. The more turds that float to the top of this admins,cesspool the better.
[12]
Two steps forward, one step back, classic marxist dialectic
[13]
ip
Obama isn’t going to fire Van Jones. He will become Obama’s arm to getting some of his agenda through. After all, Van Jones is but a reflection of Obama’s own desires.
[14]
Obama is in the bunker regarding this Van Jones story. He is going to have to respond one way or the other.
The media needs to start roughing Robert Gibbs up. The WH press is a joke.
[15]
Iv’e seen 4 major wars, 3 world fairs, 2 state fairs, a cockfight, a goatrope, and a buzzard f**k, but Iv’e seen nothing like this cluster foxtrot administration. It boggles the mind .
[16]
All I have to say is he is a man to be reckoned with! I only wish we had someone equally agressive and “pragmatic” on the conservative side. — Jan
Structurally it can’t happen. To be as crazy as Van Jones is on the right is essentially the same thing. As smart and fired up, you bet. But the whole idea of the founding document was counter balance and moderation devoid of extremism. That is probably why O is going the Czar route. He knows he can’t get guys like Van Jones thru confirmation due to the counter balancing effects of the Constitution.
[17]
O/T 1970 12
1980 62
2005 2,671
What does the column on the right represent ?
hint: It has to do with money
[18]
That is probably why O is going the Czar route. He knows he can’t get guys like Van Jones thru confirmation due to the counter balancing effects of the Constitution.
Well said and very true, drdog!
[19]
earmarks?
[20]
17. Abortions paid for by Chekote?
[21]
#17 Well the numbers on the right keep going up with the date.
Shot in the dark…..
Is it the per capita amount that each person owes on the increasing deficit?
[22]
Clever, eph! You’re quick!
[23]
[24]
19- we have a winner ! RWY
[25]
17. Abortions paid for by Chekote?
lol
[26]
19- we have a winner ! RWY
I can’t accept. I will happily take second place however. Long story.
[27]
On earmarks, why don’t we allow each congressman 1 earmark and each senator 2 and cap each earmark at $20,000. If we did that next year, how much money would we save next year ?
[28]
Meg Whitman, “I’m a fan of Van Jones.”
RINOs: don’t you just love them? Just whay the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia needs – a female Arnold.
Maybe Meg should have sold three or four of her chins on eBay.
[29]
why don’t we NOT pay our Congress Critters at all?? Just assume they’ll steal what they need to “get by”. They’re gonna steal it anyway…why compound the crime by paying them upfront??
[30]
Eph, It’s me, HD.
I’m pissed you got banned. Chek is on permanent 2.111 with almost everyone.
INC, Hope you recover well.
BTW, Chek blasted you and bcb over at HHR two days ago.
[31]
Sharp2, Is that you Tim V?
[32]
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ #26
[33]
RWY- forever #2 in our hearts…..
[34]
Abortions paid for by Chekote?
Close, it was actually the number of insults she passed out.
[35]
You bethca
[36]
#
Sharp2, Is that you Tim V?
yes
[37]
Sounds like Ckekote got what she wanted – a legend in her own mind.
[38]
BTW what is 2.111?
[39]
grab your ankles
[40]
Tina came up with it.
It’s code for ignore the troll.
[41]
spending per citizen
[42]
HD,
Whats up my brother? You need to move over here! It’s a ton of fun!! The threads move a lot faster too.
Grab Darrell, MD, and TB while your at it.
[43]
“Sharp2, Is that you Tim V?”
Wow. Great guess.
How did you know that Eph Rove was Eph Rove though????
[44]
JustMary,
Please change your avatar.
[45]
I’ll try.
[46]
IP 727. On my $8701 I allocate $500 for national defense. I would like a refund on the rest.
[47]
Can someone avatar Palin with her jogging tights? hahahahaha
[48]
IP 727. On my $8701 I allocate $500 for national defense. I would like a refund on the rest.
That’s only 5.4%, not enough
[49]
China’s national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20
By Hou Lei (chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-13 16:45
Comments(20) PrintMail
The national flag of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) will be hoisted at the South Lawn of the White House in Washington on September 20, media reported Sunday.
[50]
to ALL those with new avatars…AWESOME! I just may need to update my Thor avatar..though having a REALLY big hammer is pretty cool!
[51]
Why? Ann? Gun? Ann with gun?
[52]
No Dad….Thor is the best avatar. I just changed mine cause I wanted a blonder avatar that still kicked butt.
[53]
Where is KnightHawk?
[54]
fedupartist: “China’s national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20”
It’s really only fair, don’t ya think? They’re funding our government, we oughta fly their flag officially.
*sigh* is the Chinese national anthem any easier to sing? I never could hit the high note in the “Star Spangled Banner” anyway!
[55]
Hi old and new gang. EPH requested me to be here.
-Tina from HR.
[56]
Greetings, Tina…welcome aboard!!
and welcome to all our new friends!!
[57]
Welcome, Tina.
[58]
O/T How do the networks know who watches what, when???
[59]
Thanks, a plant free zone, hopefully.
[60]
ip727: “O/T How do the networks know who watches what, when???”
You know that guy holding a cellphone who’s peering in your window? He’s not interested in how you look in your underwear!! (and neither are we
)
[61]
why compound the crime by paying them upfront??
So they will steal less
[62]
Tina…just honest talk here. We love debate, but don’t like mindless Leftist cut&paste crap!
[63]
Thanks, a plant free zone, hopefully.
plants can’t post but they can see.
[64]
We can always invite oakleaf and chekotex to join us.
[65]
why not acroso too?
[66]
checkpants is mad at me.
[67]
checkpants is mad at me. so just 2.111. she is not mad at me anymore.
[68]
oakleaf is welcome to join any time!
He just needs to fill out a simple 12,483 page questionairre, provide a fairly extensive set of fluid samples, and agree to wear a locator bracelet on his ankle (I’m told it’s relatively unobtrusive). Easy breezy!
oakleaf just needs to contact BJG’s crack legal staff for the details!
[69]
acroso was here…but he kept “soiling” the carpets. The smell was AWFUL!
[70]
Acroso was here, but quickly crapped his mess kit.
[71]
You left out depends for OL
[72]
I tried the 2.111, but it did not work, then she called me a gnat or something, I was hurt for a second.
[73]
I like one of the handles at hedge for him – Obamaleaf.
[74]
If acroso shows up, the mullet is going back down in the muck. It is much more pleasant.
[75]
EPH I think it was thinks she’s a he.
[76]
Mullet likes to stay on the bottom, he can look up the girls dresses that way.
[77]
acroso won’t be back…and won’t be missed.
[78]
Is that a dress you are wearing? If so, could you tie off the legs or something.
[79]
Anyway, tell EPH I said hello, got to get up early for my country’s sake.
[80]
“Imagine the media uproar had Bush appointed someone half as far to the right as Jones is to the left.”
—
It would lead all the news channels for days on end not to mention all the papers and weekly rags.
CHANGE
[81]
Hey Tina!
[82]
“Imagine the media uproar had Bush…….”
You really can fill in the blank with that one.
[83]
checkpants is mad at me.
—-
Chek gets mad at everyone that attempts to help her.
I like saying 2.111 though it annoys the piss out of her.
[84]
Meg Whitman, “I’m a fan of Van Jones.” — BC
Gosh I would not give her that much credit. She probably thought she overheard Van Halen.
[85]
LOL let’s hope so Dr.Dog, or some other Van Jones came to mind.
[86]
IP727 – 2009 September 3 6:33 pm : Indeed let them choke on the turds though next fall.
“Where is KnightHawk? ” – I’m around Artist.
[87]
UhOh! They are covering the actual burial of The One Gloved One at this instant.
Expect a large Communist data dump from the White House in 5…4…3…
[88]
Ok watched the video..she dam well knows who she’s talking about. say good bye to your idea of a political career Meg.
[89]
LOL.. yeah the WH is like oh look an opportunity where’s all the bad news for us this week… quick push it out between now and 6am.
[90]
Fridays and celeb deaths are like
Christmaswinter solstice to them.[91]
Nice one JM, lol.
[92]
JM! You have posed the question of the year! Will O deliver a
ChristmasKwanzaa address?[93]
[94]
btw major kudo’s to Beck in general, he’s been on this and other topics full throttle the last few weeks. I know some don’t care for some of the antic and emotion in his program but overall it’s entertaining and informative, covers lots of things others are missing.
[95]
OMFG that’s grate JM… I’m gonna have that one to pass around come nov\dec, never had seen that b4.
[96]
Even my kids sing that now. lol
[97]
This site only attracts the finest of people…:)
[98]
This looks interesting…
h/t The Corner & Mark Hemingway/Eli Lake
‘Besieged by leaks of several closely held secrets, the CIA has asked the Justice Department to examine what it regards as the criminal disclosure of a secret program to kill foreign terrorist leaders abroad, The Washington Times has learned.
Two U.S. intelligence officials, who spoke on the condition that they not be named because of the sensitivity of the case, said the leak investigation involved a program that CIA Director Leon E. Panetta told Congress about in June and that surfaced in news reports just a month later.
The vice chairman of the the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence declined to discuss any possible leak investigations but told the Times on Thursday that a growing number of disclosures of highly secret programs, tactics and other information had caused “irreparable damage” to the U.S. intelligence community.
“They foil our attempts to carry out classified missions,” Sen. Christopher S. Bond said in an interview. “They tell our intelligence community: We don’t have your back; we’re stabbing you in the back. Our allies ask us, ‘How can we trust you to deal in classified matters in private, when the details are leaked to the press?’”‘
[99]
Meg Whitman, “I’m a fan of Van Jones.”
Damn! This crap goes for running on the GOP ticket these days in California? What a turd Whitman turned out to be. Oh well, better to know sooner rather than later. At least it will save me money as I now have a good reason to continue my personal boycott of the California Republican party.
[100]
‘Besieged by leaks of several closely held secrets, the CIA has asked the Justice Department to examine what it regards as the criminal disclosure of a secret program to kill foreign terrorist leaders abroad, The Washington Times has learned.
Ha ha ha! Are you serious? This is same Justice Department that is looking into stringing up fellow CIA employees for being mean to terrorists? Ha ha ha! And you want us to look into leaks? Suuuuure, this request will go right to the top of the stack! No wait, just to make sure it’s handled properly, it will go right right into the special round file. Don’t bother calling us, we’ll get back to you on this Sparky! Ha, ha, ha! Hey Svenn, guess what the lackey from the CIA just brought to me. This is a good one…
[101]
100.
Damn, I guess I missed the party again tonight.
[102]
“CIA has asked the Justice Department to examine what it regards as the criminal disclosure of a secret program to kill foreign terrorist leaders abroad, The Washington Times has learned.”
—
Holder will take the request and throw it in the virtual recycle bin.
[103]
Crap I need to remember to read all the posts before responding, Thompson read my mind, as usual.
[104]
At least it will save me money – or send it to Carly if she announces for senate, yeah I know, but it would beat having Frankenstein represent ca again for 6 more years.
[105]
Wow, Tina back, and artist. New folks from HHR (we could call them ‘chexiles’).
BJG is reaching critical mass!
[106]
Chek posted a comment at RP. It is getting harder to find Chek free zones.
[107]
Gateway pundit is on a roll these days
[108]
unemployment reaches 26 year high. CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN !
WHERE ARE THE JOBS ???
CANADA IS PRODUCING JOBS, WHY CAN’T WE ???
[109]
105 – Chek was stalking lisa. We are going to have to get a restraining order soon. It is also good to see some of the other HHR’s here. I did read one of Chek’s post over there as i was scrolling thru (I saw knova so I read it) and she thinks that because of my social views I will be crucified over here. I want to thank BJG for providing a forum for expressing them.
[110]
All these great people joining BJG, I got one question.
Where in the world is Merle?
[111]
The problems with Chekote here had little or nothing to do with her political positions. It had everything to do with her attitude and behavior. She eventually pissed everybody off, as she seems to do everywhere she goes, a blogging Typhoid Mary.
The people here are fairly diverse in their opinions and are welcoming to contrary views. It basically started as a PP expatriate community and now it’s great to be getting people from other places as well.
[112]
I would like to see Phil and Darrell from HHR come over here also.
[113]
The people here are fairly diverse in their opinions and are welcoming to contrary views.
I was called a”troll” here on my 4-5th comment at this site.
[114]
was never labeled a troll at hhr or rp
[115]
113 – eph called me a RINO at HHR. It hurt my feelings. But nearly as bad as Chek saying that I can’t think for myself
[116]
Sharp2edgedsword: “I was called a”troll” here on my 4-5th comment at this site.”
But I’m sure whoever said it, meant it in the best possible way!
cheers all!!
[117]
I posted a comment on PP in response to MikeyW since I couldn’t resist. I looked to see if there was a response. Chekote was on the thread saying Hi to me with an exclamation point! Like we were buds or something. sheesh…
Did she get kicked of HHR? I was reading some of that stuff over there and at that rino site NM. She is a pita wherever she goes.
[118]
I, and we, DO love contrary opinions…it is the only way that all of us can ensure that our beliefs and arguments are well reasoned.
We all have our occaisional “brain farts”…but are generally lucid.
Chek and Acroso had moments of lucidity, among near continual brain-farting. That’s the difference.
[119]
Tina! I missed you babe.
[120]
Just,
We don’t have any liberals here to practice our swordsmanship against. How can we fine tune our debating and reasoning abilities without a worthy opponent ?
[121]
If there are any who would like to come on here and have an honest debate/discussion without resorting to finger biting and poo throwing, they are welcome.
[122]
Are there any liberals that HAVE logic and reason ?
[123]
Um, no…..none so far.
[124]
Very few. That’s the big problem. Once they start being pinned down, they begin with the ad hominem attacks and the endless loop of restating points that have already been refuted.
[125]
I posit that the only way we can have a reasonable debate with a liberal is if one or several of us, create a NEW identity and play “devil’s advocate.”
[126]
About the last time I remember seeing any was over at Polipundit over a year ago. I think there were one or two who used to check in and tried to be polite and would attempt to honestly defend their position. Hot Air has had one or two who will be civil, but they usually misrepresent what other are saying.
Sharp, that would be kind of like drinking poison! Besides, having a default setting that would go to logic and civility no one would last long!
[127]
I have liberal or should I say libertarian social tendencies, does that count? Here let me throw a grenade. I posted it yesterday.
Would the person who said this about Reagan be a moderate, liberal or RINO?
”Since he denies the right to abortion, he cannot be a defender of any rights.”
”Since he has no program and no ideology to offer, his likeliest motive for entering the Presidential race is power lust.”
[128]
A lib who hates Reagan and will say anything to gain attention.
Abortion is not a “right” any more than murder or theft is a “right”.
The second is easily proven wrong.
A RINO would attempt to be more subtle, IMO.
[129]
We could just as easily copy/paste the dim talking points of the day and refute. That is all they do…..copy/paste from one site to the next. When challenged, they go back to the cave for a huddle, and come back to paste their site’s collective thoughts (as their own).
[130]
Hah, so true, JM!!
[131]
Inc – I will provide a link to the person’s obituary. I have the original copy from the NYT in a copy of one of her books. She died in 1982. I do not necessarily agree with her on everything as she was a very stark and absolute individual, and not many people can walk the walk that she did. I originally posted it for people talking in absolutes.
You are blogging on a site dedicated to her ideals.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/07/obituaries/07randobit.html
[132]
More Van Jones: A Reverend Wright moment?
[133]
knova, I have to go get ready to see my doctor.
Later today I will give you links to the Libertarians For Life site with some statements by a woman who is an Ayn Rand follower who is pro-life and defends it from the Rand POV.
As I remember, basically she says we should be arguing responsibility to the unborn.
[134]
We need for JM to designate one of us to be the liberal of the day.
[135]
BJG does not adhere to Rand philosophy across the board nor was it ever mentioned as a qualification to blog here, otherwise I would not blog here as I am a Christian and disagree with her about many, many things.
[136]
ip, that would be interesting to see!
[137]
Also, chekote already tried to advocate abortion by quoting Ayn Rand, and I have already been through this at least twice with her.
[138]
Is this what you were talking about, INC?
[139]
Inc – I don’t know you but did follow the posts on your visit to the hospital. I hope things work out. It sounds as if it is doing better
As I stated, there are many things that I disagree with Ayn Rand on. One of her followers, in fact many may be pro-life. Ayn Rand herself was decidedly pro choice as well as anti religion.
[140]
Correct, as the site is not called “Ayn Rand was right about everything”. In hindsight, I think we could have better named the site to reflect that we were pro-fiscal-galt, stopping the engine, since that was the motivation at the time. Saw Barry’s policies coming a mile away.
[141]
“Since he denies the right to abortion, he cannot be a defender of any rights”
.”~~Ayn rand
I would of course disagree with the premise that such a “right” even exists,in spite of what the court says. Ayn herself can be skewered on that same sword,as she fails to acknowlege the right to life etc. of the unborn.How can one argue the right ot life liberty and happiness, if said life is snuffed out to begin with.
It is nonsensical to suggest that someone who defends “rights” 99% of the time becomes suspect because they refuse to accept that other 1%.
I agree with most of rand’s writings, but not all, does that make me a non believer on all the rest?
[142]
I have never read Ayn Rand’s books. I am a Bible believing, pro-life, conservative. I believe in being fiscally conservative also. I have read about Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged on the internet and am not totally ignorant of her beliefs.
[143]
The abortion issue has pretty well been beatin to death on this site, let’s not open that can of worms again.
[144]
I have read all of Ayn Rand’s books…and no, I don’t agree with every word in them, or thing she said or did in her life.
Nor do I need to in order to appreciate the truth of “The Fountainhead”, or the prescience of “Atlas Shrugged”.
[145]
I use Ayn Rand only as an example of absolutes. Chek claims to be a libertarian, but is actually a one issue voter, who would sell economic and individual freedom down the river given the choice of that and full blown pro-choice/women’s rights. Conversely, there are many people who are economic and social conservatives, who would gladly have a more intrusive and regulated economy, provided that abortion was made illegal.
I am not Chek, ask eph, sharp, tina and the other HHR refugees.
[146]
Knova,
Would you say that you are pro-choice and somewhat “anti-religion” ?
[147]
and no, i don’t equate you with chek at all. a long time ago, i highlighted one of your posts and praised it.
[148]
knova, no sweat. As I have said lots of time, I don’t agree with ANYBODY other than me 100% of the time (and I argue with me sometimes too
)
And that is how it should be! I LOVE to debate, argue, “discuss”…whatever. I personally tried multiple times to encourage acroso and Chek to stop dragging their fingernails down the balckboard, and instead bring real arguments and opinions. They ultimately could not help themselves.
But ANY and ALL opinions and arguments are welcome here…and, I believe, necessary in order to ensure that folks can articulate why they believe what they do, and maybe change what they believe if a cogent argument can be delivered to them!
[149]
146 – let’s put it this way. PBA is murder, pure and simple. Aborting a girl because you want a boy and vice versa should take you out of the running for being a parent ever. Medical science is able to deliver and nurture a normal child at 20 weeks so that is my cut off point. Before that, to tell you the truth, I am not sure. Is it 2 cells, 3 cells, when there is some fetal form that resembles a human?
As far as religion goes, I am a Christian, who has more faith in the Gospels than I do in the laws of the OT (which we tend to pick and choose which ones we want), and I have no use for Paul.
That ought to get me the love.
[150]
knova, your views on abortion track closely to mine. I am absolutely convinced that a 20 week old child is a human being. I’m even inclined to go a bit earlier and say that 13 weeks (the first Trimester) should be the cut-off point. When does the “mass of cells” acquire a soul? I don’t know. But somewhere in period they DO acquire it.
[151]
Knova,
Let me ask you a question about the Bible. If you have no use for Paul, does that mean that your Bible would consist of the 4 gospels and little else ?
[152]
I’m even inclined to go a bit earlier and say that 13 weeks
I raise, I’m “all in” at day 1 !
[153]
Eph ???
[154]
150 – When medical science can actually produce a real test tube baby, it will all be mute. Of course then we will have another can of worms to deal with.
Sharp, I am not a theologian, I am just telling you what I believe. I consider Paul to be the ‘Majority whip’ of Christianity and the excuse that many of our mainstream religions use to get their congregations to fall lockstep behind their leaders. Paul was not the Son of God.
No more religion for me today.
[155]
yes sir. I’m here.
[156]
Knova,
Let me ask you a question about the Bible. If you have no use for Paul, does that mean that your Bible would consist of the 4 gospels and little else ?
~~SHARP
Let us apply some randian **thinking on Knova. He rejects paul==ERGO he can’t be a christian.
** If you don’t support abortion rights, you can’t support any rights.
[157]
TimV,
It’s real simple for me. Through the will of the All Mighty we have an obligation to protect innocent life. Period. It is written in the Torah and the Ten Commandments. I will always believe that the Good Lord will protect the innocent and condemn the guilty. To what extent is open for debate. but for me “day 1″ begins life and also those who are terminally ill. I dont not beleive in “mercy killings” either.
[158]
my problem with “Day 1″ is that a huge percent of “fertilized eggs” are lost in the first few days and no one is ever the wiser. If a woman goes horseback riding or plays volleyball the day after having sex is she “aborting” a baby? I don’t think so. Strawman argument, to be sure. But is speaks to my belief that the human soul does not fuse with the human body at inception. But that’s just me, folks.
My goal in the whole abortion debate is to draw a firm line in the sand that most folks can respect, but that still will saves MILLIONS of lives. Setting a firm limit at 10 or 12 weeks would do that, with exceptions ONLY for the physical health of the baby or mother. And even then every effort should be made to save the baby by delivering it and nurturing it outside the womb if necessary.
but I do NOT want to re-visit the abortion debate today…so that’s all from me!
[159]
All right IP, you caught me…I am druid. My daughters are druish princesses.
Actually, to accept Paul as my savior, that would make me Paulian, correct? If I have read things correctly, I only need to accept one person as my savior and that I have done. Hence a Christian.
[160]
No more religion for me today.- Knova
I feel like Jan Hanford interviewing George Staphanoplis.
[161]
“It is written in the Torah and the Ten Commandments”
I don’t think the 10 Commandments says anything about innocent life, only “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” I and am not going capital punishment has its place in society.
[162]
my problem with “Day 1″ is that a huge percent of “fertilized eggs” are lost in the first few days and no one is ever the wiser. If a woman goes horseback riding or plays volleyball the day after having sex is she “aborting” a baby? I don’t think so
me either or neither whichever is correct
[163]
NO more religion.
[164]
I only need to accept one person as my savior and that I have done. Hence a Christian.-Knova
I will agree with that.
[165]
“I don’t think the 10 Commandments says anything about innocent life”
Do you beleive that G-d is the eternal creator? If yes, that it can be inferred that the Ten Commandments refer to protecting innocent life.
[166]
eph – last time. It says life, which could be construed as all life, innocent or otherwise.
On to the next threads.
[167]
Knova,
I have one last question for you.
Do you agree or disagree with THIS Bible verse: All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
please answer this 1 question and I promise to ask no more questions of you today. Please do not dodge like Tim in GA, just answer the question.
[168]
Tim, (sharp)
Again I am no theologian. My minimal understanding of the work that we call the Bible is that it is a group of books that were written by men. The Bible as we know it was put together in 325 AD or thereabouts. Some books made the cut, others did not. My favorite disciple was Thomas. You know my personality, so you would probably know why that is. My pastor at the time lent to me two versions of the Gospel according to Thomas, that he had from Divinity school. One was a straight up history, and one was quite fanciful, especially in depicting what Jesus could do as a child. Neither of his made it into the Bible. Were Thomas’ writing no less inspired than Paul’s letters?
There are also differing versions that have different books.
[169]
I am aware of the fact that the Catholic Bible has additional books in the Bible than what Protestants use. I promised no more questions from you for today and I will stick to that promise. That does not mean that I will not pose another question for you tomorrow. I believe that the Bible was written by The Holy Spirit acting in men.
[170]
I have never read the “Gospel of Thomas” as it is NOT in my Bible.
[171]
Were Thomas’ writing no less inspired than Paul’s letters?
I will answer this question tomorrow.
[172]
The link JM gave earlier to Libertarians for Life is one of the ones I’ve mentioned before. Here’s info from a couple of my old comments:
On the Libertarians for Life site their founder, Doris Gordon, makes her own case for life in discussing her understanding of unalienable rights in the article, Abortion and Rights: Applying Libertarian Principles Correctly.
She points out the disconnect in logic that she sees in Ayn Rand’s thinking regarding abortion. She does not say how Rand explained her later contradiction of her earlier statement; however, Gordon does go on to make what she considers the libertarian case for life.
[173]
In the link JM gave Congressional Record Proceedings and debates of the 96th Congress, first session Wednesday, November 28th, 1979, Vol. 125, No. 167 at the same site, Gordon wrote this:
[174]
In that last article I mentioned by Gordon, she has done some hard thinking about the idea of the “rights” of the mother. (My emphasis).
[175]
Gordon concludes her lengthy article by saying this:
[176]
Actually, to accept Paul as my savior, that would make me Paulian, correct? KNOVA
non sequitur
You said you had no use for paul, I said nothing about accepting him as savior.
[177]
Why is Paul important? If I accept Christ as my Savior, what more is there?
Inc. – well reasoned posts. To tell you the truth I don’t know why I choose to involve myself in the abortion debate. It drove me from HHR for a period of time, due to the emotions on both sides, and probably will never be settled until people stop becoming pregnant.
[178]
Thanks, knova.
As far as my doctor today (family practioner) went I did ask him about some of the problems mentioned by ip, phineas gage and Dr. D. He said he doesn’t think I have any of those problems. They did do a sonogram in the hospital.
He had more blood work done to check out my minerals and a few other things which were out of kilter in some of the hospital results (potassium, slightly anemic). An esophageal spasm is another possibility we discussed. He’s an excellent doc and I do trust him. He spent longer with me explaining things than the cardiologist.
He did recommend I get a regular flu shot. I asked about swine flu and the British neurologists’ cautions about the vaccine. I can’t remember his exact words, but he said more needs to be known about the vaccine’s side effects. We’ve had some mild swine flu cases here.
[179]
Why is Paul important? If I accept Christ as my Savior, what more is there? KNOVA
You brught it up by saying you had no “use” for him, whatever that meant.
[180]
This book is online and is a good place to get started with reading:
The New Testament Documents Are they Reliable?
by F. F. BRUCE, M.A., D.D., F.B.A.
It’s an old classic that came out in 1943, 6th edition 1981.
I’m a theologically conservative Christian and I have taught women’s Bible studies for years. I have done a workshop on the why and how of Bible study several times; however, we are in the midst of moving and most of my references and notes are already packed and gone. I do go into the inspiration and authority of Scripture. One thing I look at is Jesus’ use of Scripture in the gospels, including some of His statements in John 15 and 16 regarding revelation to the apostles (of which group Paul was chosen to belong).
I’ll try to work from memory as I can, but I am sort of distracted and very busy at the moment!
[181]
one useful tool in Bible study is to compare scripture with other scripture. forget about “commentaries”. Let the Bible interpret the Bible.
[182]
Sharp, that principle is from the Reformation:
R. C. Sproul has an invaluable book, Knowing Scripture. Mine is packed and gone, but I just found these quotes on line (click on Bible Exegesis at the link for these):
[183]
The soundness of our principles of hermeneutics is foundational; what principles do we use and why? Language and grammar references serve to help with understanding of meaning or words and sentences. Commentaries can be valuable, but knowing who wrote them and the personal background of the authors is important.
[184]
INC,
There are MANY verses in the Bible that give my human understanding problems. Much of the Old Testament is difficult. What I generally do, however, is to yield to God and hope for future revelation. I use the verse ” His ways are greater… “
[185]
One Bible student taught me to use Strongs for a Hebrew or Greek word and find the very first time it appears in the Bible and to also compare other Bible verses that have the same word.
I have a Strong’s Concordance but I never use it, instead, I use the concordance in the Blue Letter Bible by clicking on the C.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#conc/1
[186]
I agree, Sharp. I start with the clear and the rest I wait and pray and read and leave to future understanding. I apologize for being abrupt in my comment above–I should have chosen my words more carefully. Please bear with me. I enjoy Strong’s.
Thanks for the online link. I appreciate it.
[187]
I failed to notice any “abrupt” comments…
[188]
Knova is not like Chekmiester they might agree on some things but the attitude and approach is not the same.
“My daughters are druish princesses.”
…Funny they don’t look Druish… [the late John Candy]
[189]
Good! When I can’t see someone face to face and I don’t yet know their comment reactions very well, I try to go gingerly.
[190]
KH, yes, attitude & approach make a huge difference. (You said it better than my “gingerly” comment).