But many would disagree.

The “sammies” (Aidid’s fighters) were under the influence of locally popular drugs and proved very difficult to bring down with the .223 round, while a single Delta force soldier with his pre-Vietnam 30 cal m14 rifle was more efficient in battle.

Get a .308, and a .223 as your backup weap…

1 reports from Iraq theater indicate poor penetration of walls and obstacles by .223 round, thus placing US troops at a tactical disadvantage when opposing insurgents armed with AKs, which have horrible accuracy but are more dangerous in house to house fighting…

2 UN regs have apparently watered down the effectiveness of the tumbler concept by forcing signatories to modify rounds for more gentlemanly fighting, leading of course, to more US troops killed. Not confirmed but a popular conversation piece when talking calibers. This applies to US troops’ pistol rounds too, as they are forbidden from using expanding ammo and limited to ball rounds for their 9mm pistols, which overpenetrate, necessitating more hits per target..

3. modern assymetric warfare is often conducted by fighters that do not slow down for wounded troops negating the intent of the tumbling design.

4. less momentum striking target from smaller rounds have led to notable risks to US troops lives, ie, the story of one sergeant going hand to hand with an echo charlie ( ) despite hitting him 4x center of mass with 223 rounds. The ec was so jacked up on stimulants he was not dropped by the wounds, in fact he was able to engage a soldier hand to hand after being struck.

Now, many have said the soldiers were ditching the .223 rifle for the .308 or 6.8spc and the 9mm pistol for the .45, and many no doubt have, but most have not, from what I have heard.

Most just concentrate on shot placement and enjoy the light weight of the mags….

A friend of mine told me that each year more people die from 22 wounds than other rounds. A 22 in most cases will enter but leave the body. It will bounce around tearing up your insides. In many cases doing more damage than a larger round that will just rip right through you. Unless it is a hollow point or similar round which will rip you up big time.

My take is if I am going to face a uniform then I am going for head shots. I don’t know what they have under the outerwear.

The same behavior, ie overpenetration and insufficient wound channels which many group together under the euphamism “stopping power”, have been cited in 9mm luger and .223/5.56 ar-15/m-16 rifle the army uses.

The whole idea of a bullet as a defense tool is to apply a massive sledgehammer blow to the assailant. Penetration is, imo, less of an issue, because slice wounds are more survivable and reparable, overall less tramatic, than crush wounds.

Your mileage may vary. Although you will certainly get “stopping power” from your 7.62/.30cal rifle rounds and your .40 and .45 pistol rounds, and I prefer them, it is also critical that a shooter obtain good shot placement. One center of mass hit is better than 4 or more non-critical wounds.

If you are able to achieve good shot placement, then the smaller caliber weapons are quite effective too. And their ammo is cheaper and more widely available. and the reduced recoil when firing contributes to accuracy.

It’s all a tradeoff.

The .357magnum revolver than the guy used in addition to the five-seven is a very formidable weapon, using a caliber similar to that of the 9mm but with a much more expanding and heavier grain bullet, with a lot more powder behind it. .357mag rounds are nearly twice as long as the 9mm (19mm) and look like rifle bullets in comparison. And they are very formidable.

The 5-7 rounds are 40 grains each, comparable to .22 rounds, they can be lethal with good placement, but will be far less lethal than the .357mag rounds.

they will wound, but are less likely to kill.

my 5c….

beej, that there is something wrong? Sure. That there is something actionable that you can bring charges? Maybe, maybe not.

An officer trying to contact AQ is not sufficient evidence that something is wrong?? On what planet???? Contacting the enemy is not a problem in and of itself in the armed services that are actively engaged in fighting tooth and nail and blood and lives?

omg. up is down, in is out, rain is dry. everything right is now wrong.