Sha Na Na Na Sha Na Na Na Hey Hey
2009 November 9
HT: Eph
88 Responses
leave one →
“He was guilty of nothing, except that he earned his own fortune and never forgot that it was his.“ The concept contained within that phrase is what has set America apart, and made her the greatest nation on Earth. And it is the systematic attack on that concept, that this website is dedicated to fighting. This website is NOT devoted to making people “wealthy”, but rather to fighting the notion that the “wealth” they DO have needs to be “redistributed”.
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[1]
Wishful thinking.
It ain’t over till the wicked witch from San Francisco is no longer speaker.
[2]
I WISH I could deal in wishful thinking, but alas, this thing is far from over.
[3]
{ot}
http://www.breitbart.tv/california-state-worker-claims-seiu-members-beat-him-bloody/
[4]
The real key to this whole public option gambit is how wedded to it are the extreme left wing of the Dim party. If they can’t live without it then the entire bill dies.
So the question is do they accept half a loaf or want the whole thing?
[5]
Again, SO WHAT…..the Government Option is a very minimal part of the takeover…..
As I have said, it was always a diversion for both left and right plus was bargined away for Health Insurance lobby support….
Its no victory for conservatives if “the public option is dead” as the rest of ScaryCare is the takeover….
To put this out as if we have defeated the takeover is foolish and misleading…
Why people who supposedly know what they are talking about keep putting out this simplistic premise that only the Public Option is Government Heatlh Care is beyond me…..I know why the left pushes this notion as it keeps people from understanding what the real takeover plan is….why commentators on the right buy into this ruse is beyond me unless they are simply intellectually lazy or cant understand what is actually going on themselves….
[6]
I’m convinced that if the house was given 1/2 or 2/3’s a loaf Nancy can manufacture the votes, I don’t believe for second that she didn’t have at least another 10 maybe more votes if she really needed them saturday.
[7]
LOL !
Great thread
[8]
the Government Option is a very minimal part of the takeover
–
I agree, Ind.Mandate is actually far worse, not to mention other parts, but you gotta destroy this thing one bullet point at a time, government option gets attention and is not like from the public, so it gets the most attention.
[9]
Stall this to January, Obama’s approval will be at 43%, unemployment will be at 10.6% and we’ll be in an election year
And nothing will get out of the Senate
Watch and see…
[10]
Key sentence:
“What can’t pass the House is the only option to pass the Senate, and vice versa.”
[11]
“Obama’s approval will be at 43%, unemployment will be at 10.6% and we’ll be in an election year”
No way. Try 35% approval and 12% unempolyment
[12]
>So the question is do they accept half a loaf or want the whole thing? mutley
Having waited decades for some of them, they will take what they can get.
[13]
They didn’t have the votes in August
[14]
And they didn’t have the votes in September
[15]
And they still didn’t have the votes in October
[16]
And they don’t have the votes now
[17]
And they’ll have even fewer votes in an election year than they have now
[18]
I was refering to the house. If it gets through the senate, the house will go for it, whatever is in it, All they need is to turn leiberleft.
[19]
13-16, and never will
[20]
D-O-N-E
[21]
They = Senate
[22]
[23]
WEC, you are too focused on results, when tactics are what are called for here. Yes there are other parts of the bill that is a bigger issue. Let them think that we think that the public option that is the stumbling block to getting the bill thru. At the same time ferret out just how committed the Leftists are to the public option. If they are willing to die for it, OK. You then ferret out that if the option is in will that kill it for the Senate. Then you move heaven an earth to make sure that the reconciliation HAS the PO in it. Classic Sun Tzu.
[24]
It is not impossible, so again I warn against the dangers of irrational exuberance, particularly in light of Saturday night.
These are very dangerous ideologues who have few, if any, limits on what they will do to get what they want.
That said, it is going to be very difficult for them in the Senate.
Not impossible, but very difficult.
[25]
PG, yes.
[26]
#23 I understand what you are saying but thing it is bad tactics too.
See, I dont think for a second that the leftists in the House are really all that committed to a Public Option…..They know its a takeover….they come from safe districts…..sure, the KOS types will cry but in the end they will fall in line….
Meanwhile, we have narrowly focused in the minds of the causual conservative follower (the ones that dont blog all day lol) and the general public that the Government Option is the only thing that makes this trash a HC takeover…..then we are stuck as we fell for the diversion and have no time to make the case against the rest…..
Again, this was bargined away to HC lobby in the spring too….
A big part of Sun Tzu’s Art of War is DIVERSION….that is what is happening here…..
[27]
#
Not impossible, but very difficult.
~~~~~
I agree. Too soon for the reverie, the casket’s not closed yet. I’m sure there are some legal tactics not tried, some loopholes not created, some illegal actions by the DEMS not yet schemed….
long way from over, stop the dirge until the body is cold…
[28]
A big part of Sun Tzu’s Art of War is DIVERSION….that is what is happening here…..
Yep. The question is who is the better at it?
[29]
You don’t need diversion when you have the votes.( or will have)
[30]
Just Deserts. Remember Kelo? Well Pfizer who was the party to receive the property is now abandoning the site to the weeds and trash. The city has nothing to show for it. Fact their tax base is worse off now than before they started these proceedings. Link.
Course that doesn’t not help the Kelos. Of course they could run the cities nose in it and offer them 10c on the dollar for the empty lot.
[31]
#28 I say we dont fall for it and attack the real centerpiece of CrappyCare – the Individual Mandate……if that was taken out the whole thing would crumble like a house of cards to include the public option….
But can you say that the GOP and Conservatives have mounted anything that even resembles a coherent message against the individual mandates? I say NO….
The overall message against this POS should have been a simple one too:
CrappyCare will cost you much more personally and ruin the overall econmony, it will result in rationed care which will make you die earlier and in more pain, and will cause you to lose your individual rights/freedoms in the process…..
[32]
By the way Texas passed Prop 11 by a ratio of 4:1. The measure prevents political entities in the state from seizing properties for any private transfer.
[33]
TEXOKLA UBER ALLES
[34]
OK WEC, but how? IM is an amorphous blob in the bill. The only time it really raises its ugliness in the fine/jailtime aspects. The Dims could rip that out and still have IM. Its like looking for a horse in the fog. You know its there, can’t see it, and worse can’t articulate it to the average citizen.
[35]
Isn’t it time for ABC, NBC or CBS to come out with a poll stating that Obama’s approval has jumped to 60%.
Just wait a few days and see.
[36]
35. No need, RAS is doing it for them.
[37]
“You don’t need diversion when you have the votes.( or will have)”
zzzzzzz. Wake me up when the Senate has the votes.
[38]
They can always just deduct a % of your paycheck to pay for it,if you you don’t want, much like soc.sec.
No fine,no jail, just payroll eductions.
[39]
just back from attending the [early] Marine Corps Birthday Ball [tomorrow is the actual birthday]
I promised Justmary a picture from the event…this is from our table, and a pretty cool shot! (the folks in the picture were some of those sitting at our table)
Semper Fi
[40]
now back to the topic at hand…I will believe ObamaCare is dead when I see it with a stake through its heart!!
Yes, it was tough for Pelosi to force this through the House, and yes, it WILL be tougher for Reid.
But the Left is DRIVEN to do this! They won’t stop…it’s what they DO!
[41]
Great Article from Dick Morris about how CrappyCare violates your basic individual rights thru its mandated insurance scheme:
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2009/11/09/we-can-win-in-the-senate/
“JAIL FOR NO INSURANCE UNDER PELOSI BILL
The nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation reported that the House version of the health care bill specifies that those who don’t buy health insurance and do not pay the fine of about 2.5% of their income for failing to do so can face a penalty of up to five years in prison!
The bill describes the penalties as follows:
* Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
* Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]
That anyone should face prison for not buying health insurance is simply incredible.
And how much will the stay-out-of-jail insurance cost? The Joint Committee noted that “according to a recent analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest-cost family non-group plan under HR 3862 (the Pelosi bill) would cost $15,000 by 2016.”
Obama’s bill only provides subsidies to help pay this enormous sum after families making about $45,000 have paid 8% of their income for insurance and after those earning a household income of about $65,000 have kicked in 12%.
The Joint Committee on Taxation noted that while the Senate Finance Committee version of the bill did not include criminal penalties, “The House Democrats’ bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.”
Remember that simply buying catastrophic insurance, which may be all the young uninsured family needs, does not constitute having adequate insurance under the Obama bill. It has to be total, all inclusive insurance for one to avoid the penalties in the legislation. That is because Obama wants to use these premiums from the currently uninsured to subsidize his program.
So Ms. Pelosi is requiring Americans to pay these steep premiums, or a fine of 2.5% of their income for not doing so, or, potentially, go to prison!
Anyone who is familiar with the U.S. prison system can attest to the large number of people incarcerated for similar white collar offenses. That the House bill would treat failure to carry health insurance or pay the fine as tax evasion or willful nonpayment is amazing!
And where is the constitutional basis for requiring everyone to buy insurance? It is OK for a state to make drivers pay for automobile insurance. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege, and the state may regulate it by demanding insurance. Banks can require homeowners to buy insurance as a condition of their lending. But how does the federal government get the right to require a family to buy health insurance or face a civil penalty and, failing that, to face either a criminal fine or jail?
The tough penalties in the House bill are designed to keep insurance companies from opposing the bill. It was the relaxation of these penalties in the Senate Finance Committee version of the legislation that led the companies to reverse field and come out in opposition to the legislation. The insurance companies want to see their coffers swell when tens of millions of new customers are required to buy insurance. The more draconian the penalties for failing to pay them large sums of money to pad their bottom lines, the better.
The more you read this bill, the worse it gets.”
Sounds fimilar, eh?
[42]
REVEALED BY CBSNEWS TONIGHT: OBAMA’S PLAN FOR AFGHANISTAN; send four combat brigades plus thousands more support troops… close to the 40,000 that McChrystal wanted…
—
Hey that didn’t take long.
[43]
btw I don’t have the details but that strikes me as ~20-28k, how would that be close to 40k?
[44]
The more you read this bill, the worse it gets.”
Kind of like the cap and tax, and amnesty bills.
[45]
#43 I have heard a number around 34K troops….which is probably exactly what McCrystal wanted…..same premise in war as in politics or any negotiation…..ask for more and accept what you really want or need….
Kind of like the public option eh? Ask for it but let it go in exchange for what you really want as its not needed to achive your goal!
[46]
WEC – Not quite. 40k in combat effectiveness is more like 60k total. Again like these bills, devil in the details.
[47]
Eph,
I am beginning to think you are right, that Obamacare is DOA but I also agree with the Coyote that we can not let up, these folks are sneaky and will stop at nothing to rahm this bill through by hook or by crook.
[48]
“Attorney General Eric Holder has agreed to give a keynote speech next week to a Michigan group which includes the local branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations even though the FBI has formally severed contacts with the controversial Muslim civil rights organization.” – Politico
[49]
Obama, waited until after the elections and after the healthcare bill. He played politics with our national security. For him, politics trumps national security. sad.
[50]
From NRO, shockingly enough, the left is really all about destroying private HC in this country:
“PhRMA Is Shocked About GosHealth [Benjamin Zycher]
Make that shocked, shocked. “We are disappointed . . . by today’s vote,” PhRMA said in a statement following Saturday’s House health-care vote. “While well intentioned [!], the bill . . . would have the unintended consequences [sic] of killing tens of thousands of jobs in our industry . . .”
As I have argued before, it just doesn’t get any stupider than this. Having made an unenforceable $80 billion deal with the White House, having spent upwards of $130 million on advertising in favor of health-care socialism, having been blind all this time to the reality that they are in an ideological battle in which the Left has painted a bullseye on them: PhRMA now just cannot believe that the Beltway Left would view them as both a piggy bank and an obstacle blocking their fundamental goal of centralizing health care, health-care research, and health-care lobbying in the vast monster soon to be known as GosHealth.
The comedy highlight, of course, is the plaintive cry about “killing tens of thousands of jobs in our industry.” Did PhRMA believe that the $80 billion deal would have increased such employment? Did it not occur to them that the $80 billion inevitably would come to be an opening bid? Does PhRMA believe that the Pelosi/Waxman axis gives a hoot about PhRMA employment? Does PhRMA believe that Mr. Obama would veto a bill violating his earlier promises? This utter unreality is really quite amazing. But not as amazing as the salaries these guys are paid to pursue their own destruction, and ours.
The comedy highlight, of course, is the plaintive cry about “killing tens of thousands of jobs in our industry.” Did PhRMA believe that the $80 billion deal would have increased such employment? Did it not occur to them that the $80 billion inevitably would come to be an opening bid? Does PhRMA believe that the Pelosi/Waxman axis gives a hoot about PhRMA employment? Does PhRMA believe that Mr. Obama would veto a bill violating his earlier promises? This utter unreality is really quite amazing. But not as amazing as the salaries these guys are paid to pursue their own destruction, and ours.”
as the author says, when will these fools learn that the left will always screw them at first opportunity!
[51]
#46 McCrystal asked for 40k troops in total….I am sure he had the breakout between combat and support troops worked out within this larger total…
[52]
#46 In other words, McCrystal might not have gotten exactly what he asked for but really gotten what he thought he needed….
Obama essentially gave him what he wanted and pared off a few to make it actually look like he gave it some serious thought and to placate his base a bit….
But essentitally he caved…..but it was the right thing to do regardless
[53]
From NRO:
“Enemies of the People [Benjamin Zycher]
It’s official. The Joint Tax Committee informs us that under the terms of the Pelosi health-care bill, “Americans who do not maintain acceptable health insurance coverage and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.”
And so we have, yet again, a perfect illustration of the truism that socialism would work perfectly if only there were no people. Since we do have people, with all their self-interested motives and unwillingness to bend their inherent nature to ideological demands, socialism in practice encounters problems, known as Enemies of the People.
No wonder Pelosi et al. want desperately to jam this legislation through the House before lawmakers go home for the Veterans Day break and encounter Tea Parties more numerous and louder than before. How has American self-government come to this?”
[54]
How has American self-government come to this?” — WEC
Read the run up to the Civil War in the decade preceding Sumter. All the same kind of problems are there….
[55]
Well somebody at WaPo has smelled the fiscal coffee and it is bitter. Link.
[56]
“, McCrystal might not have gotten exactly what he asked for but really gotten what he thought he needed….”
—
Not at all in my opinion sounds like he got about ~1/2 of what he wanted, I will leave it to him and those in the military to say if they think it’s “enough”, though I don’t suspect they will speak out even if it’s not, even though they should if it is not.
[57]
Yeah Dr.Dog only place they would put such clear thinking is on the official editorial page.
[58]
MFG -
With your eternal optomism, you’d make a great Detroit Lions fan (if you can tear yourself away from WWE long enough to follow them).
[59]
drdog: “Read the run up to the Civil War in the decade preceding Sumter. All the same kind of problems are there….”
Yup. Imagine just a few years ago if Congress had proposed to fine and imprison people for not having health insurance??
The pace with which the unimaginable is becoming everyday is alarming. We can only hope the Democrats will keep up that pace! For Americans are far too good at adapting…and only a headlong rush to tyranny is likely to rouse them.
[60]
Read the run up to the Civil War in the decade preceding Sumter. All the same kind of problems are there….
Hmmmmm
[61]
Very true JR.
But soon, very soon I think the confluence of the pain, the BS in Congress and the stupidity of O is going to come to a head. At the current rate I don’t see how the unemployment goes down. Like I mentioned in the ‘Tick’ post, business will go into “fixin’ to” mode with headcount. The lower end of the small business sector will move mightily to get their headcount below the $500k trigger.
[62]
Read the run up to the Civil War in the decade preceding Sumter. All the same kind of problems are there….
I agree, the two sides, left and right, are utterly irreconcilable, and this will only get worse.
Obama cannot subdue the right, it will not happen. He can only hope to outnumber us, and slowly beat us down with amnesty, tax, property infringements and inflation.
Or, outright kill us. Those are his choices. We will never stop resisting.
[63]
Meanwhile, Colonel Kurtz crows about the stock market and predicts 15000+ by 2012.
uhhhhhh, don’t think so, dude
With the dollar tanking, how soon before inflation hits?
Those aren’t just his choices, rwy–that’s his plan. Expect all of the above and more, ramming amnesty through as unemployment surges toward 15%.
[64]
Or, outright kill us. Those are his choices. We will never stop resisting.
If it gets to that it will be a blood bath. Unlike much of the South in the run up to the Civil War, the current US is a political mixed bag in every State. So a civil uprising would look like Kansas or Missouri from the civil war period.
[65]
and IF this abortion known as ObamaCare DOES become law, and DOES contain the threat of fine and prison for those opposing the mandate, I believe there will be yet another repercusion.
The repercusion? Millions of “young adults” have been blissfully flocking to Obama, toally shielded from what he bringing about. If millions of PARENTS of those young (Obama supporting) adults suddenly say: “You’re on your own to get insurance…pay the fine…or go to prison!“, then I do believe those same young adults are going to STOP being “Obama supporters”.
The youth of this country followed the slick talking Pied Piper. Remains to be seen if they’ll follow him right over a cliff.
[66]
What you will likely see in that scenario, Justrand, is the Vietnam era repeated, only this time over domestic issues rather than foreign ones, with massive protests and confrontation.
The irony of the radical lefties being on the other side of the establishment barrier will be delicious.
The difference this time is the kids won’t wallow in illicit drugs and sex, and they will bath with some regularity. And it will all be live in real web time….
[67]
exactly, dr dog. There’s no “Mason-Dixon” line. Only a couple of States are so heavily one way or the other as to be “safe” for either side.
Kalifornia, for all its Far Left leaning, is NOT a “safe State” for the Blues. Geographically in this State the “Red” areas make up 85%+ of the land area. The “Blues” are crammed into the SF Bay Area, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara and Sacramento.
Many other States are just like that.
I pray it never comes to this. I pray often and hard.
[68]
Modern civilization is just a thin polished veneer over savagery and bloodthirsty brutality, Justrand.
It doesn’t take much to scrape that veneer off and reveal what lies beneath.
[69]
excellent analogy, PG.
Mandate to get Government Healthcare = Being drafted during Vietnam War
Of course, all this is the reason they are delaying most of THESE provision until AFTER our Dear Leader is re-crowned…they hope.
[70]
Meanwhile, Colonel Kurtz crows about the stock market and predicts 15000+ by 2012.
What Cl. Kurtz doesn’t realize is that what is going on in the stock market is asset inflation valuations as the dollar continues to sink. If someone purchased a production line last year, rather than 2 years hence they saved maybe 15-20% in dollar cost. The market is forward projecting those cost values in the current stock price.
[71]
And as for the Stock Market? This sucker’s rally is almost over. If we have another “Black Friday”, it is going to be dreadful.
I read news article years ago, about a NY cabbie who made several million dollars in the Stock Market. He described his philosophy simply:
Carrying Wall Street types and plain average citizens around he listened to everything regarding investing. When the Wall Street types were buying he BOUGHT. But as soon as the “plain average citizens” started to buy…he SOLD.
The “plain average citizens” are started to buy into this “sucker’s rally”…
[72]
Peaceful secession is the only long term solution
Oklatex
[73]
#39 Nice pic, Dad- but I meant one of the two of you! Der
I expect to see it in my email, yes?
[74]
‘Peaceful secession is the only long term solution’
That assumes that the radical Left can successfully pass their ideology on to younger citizens.
What do you think the average age is of a radical Lefty in this country? I have a pretty good idea from watching them on display for some time (note that I don’t mean the casual careless Left, I mean the hard Left, for they are the ones driving this nation over the cliff)
What do you think the younger citizens are going to think as they watched their future p@$$ed away and they get a taste of pure leftist tyranny? They may be slow to wake, but they’ll get it soon enough.
Demographics may work in favor of the Left in terms of amnesty. They may, however, also work against the Left in other ways.
[75]
The economy is not recovering. It may be trying to recover, and you could say it ALWAYS is TRYING to recover.
But that does not mean it’s recovering. IMO, it’s waiting for the next shoe to drop, before going higher or lower.
The forces driving it higher are the dollar’s reserve status, the monetizing of the debt, Bernanke’s money gun, and the pause in Obama’s agenda as we fight for our kids’ futures tooth and claw.
All of these forces are under grave threat. There is plenty of reason to believe they will not carry the day.
Meanwhile, the downward forces are:
inflation
taxes, and the prospect of huge increases
loss of confidence in the dollar
masses of unemployed and no turn in jobs
the administration pushing outright communism, and the stubborn following of the people giving approvals in the high to mid forties
the gutting of the military
the uncontrolled spending and trashing of the dollar
the global instability all of this causes
the collapse of the energy sector, and the politicians’ refusal to constructively address it. (hint, wind and solar are not the solutions)
The threat of a UN climate treaty
The threat of amnesty
the continued unavailability of credit and the failure of small business and banks]
massive, unbelievable corruption in congress
imminent government takeover of up to 50% of the economy
rise of unions, not honest hardworking people but Marxist thugs
It’s all too much to keep the wheels turning…..
[76]
Then again, things like this make me much more pessimistic
Guess I’ll be heading to the Phils, but I’ll tip a San Miguel in the general direction of Oklatex….
[77]
Right Wing – sent you an e-mail
[78]
will do, daughter dear…but I’ll have to scan it in (it’s the one taken by the photographer). it came out really good! we had a great time…i’ll tell ya about it on the morrow!
[79]
Got it Gn, replied as well, many thanks…. I wish I had not missed what you were talking about…..
[80]
scan it in….., lol awesome techspeak there, JR……
Hey I got a computer file over here, you want me to modem it over to you? lol.
Sure, modem it right on over, buddy. 10-4.
lol.
[81]
lol roger that
[82]
I think he really does have to “scan it in”
Anyway, just got in and I’m peeking at the last few entries.
[83]
Been out most of the day myself, CT. I have much catching up to do!
[84]
Of course, if all he has is a hard copy, but it sounded funny.
[85]
Interesting list, Yahoo. I hope you don’t mind if I shorten it a bit, do you?
inflation
taxes, and the prospect of huge increases
loss of confidence in the dollar
masses of unemployed and no turn in jobs
the administration pushing outright communism,
and the stubborn following of the people giving
approvals in the high to mid forties
the gutting of the military
the uncontrolled spending and trashing of the dollar
the global instability all of this causes
the collapse of the energy sector,
and the politicians’ refusal to constructively
address it. (hint, wind and solar are not the solutions)
The threat of a UN climate treaty
The threat of amnesty
The continued unavailability of credit
and the failure of small business and banks]
massive, unbelievable corruption in congress
imminent government takeover of up to 50%
of the economy
rise of unions, not honest hardworking people
but Marxist thugs
OR WHAT IS KNOWN AS MODERN-DAY LIBERALISM
[86]
I can see by the timestamps this thread has been up all day. Have we turned into HHR?
[87]
aye, RWY, all I have in this case IS a hardcopy!
[88]
#56 Well the publically announce military request was 40K
“Sources: Obama near decision on Afghanistan troops (AP)
AP – President Barack Obama is nearing a decision to add tens of thousands more forces to Afghanistan, though likely not quite the 40,000 sought by his top general there, as Pentagon planners work to ready bases and provide equipment the troops would need in a country with scant resources.”
Not saying that I have definative insider knowledge either, but know the Army’s counterinsurgency doctrine and having worked these sorts of things before McCrystal got about everything he asked for…..commanders always ask for a bit for then they need in order hopefully get what they want if that makes sense….this was the minimum number of new troops he needed for his “low risk” counterinsurgency strategy…..he got 4 BCTs of Combat Troops…
Of course, the military is like everyone else, they would wanted an unlimited ammount of troops and resources if needed but that aint possible in military ops or HC lol
I am not saying any of this in defense of Obama, etc but you gotta call em as you see em…..Obama was wrong to hem and haw so much as it showed lack of resolve…..but essetially he did the right think and mainly followed the advice of the professionals…..as much as it nausated me to say this, for whatever motivation he did the right thing in this case even if it was, as I think, simply for crass political reason…..
But yeah, this guy has zero clue about militray affairs nor any respect for those who do……anyone of those serving in uniform are worth 20 dudes like Obama who has been all talk his whole life IMHO