“Joe Legal” versus “Jose Illegal”
this got sent to me in an email, seemed like a nice gentle way to start a quiet conversation for a slow Saturday morning…
You have two families: “Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal“. Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.
Ready? Now pay attention…
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $3,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car and rental insurance. Joe Legal now has $1,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, “We don’t need no stinkin’ insurance!” and still has $25,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $1,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $25,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children’s lunches while Jose Illegal’s children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal’s children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens, you are part of the problem!
It’s way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
[1]
btw…”Joe Legal” isn’t stoooopid! Sooner or later the “Joe Legals” begin to work more and more “under the table”…and they find ways to avoid paying in, while getting things out. In fact, that’s already starting to happen!
[2]
This is a great illustration. I am sending it around.
Great Pithy Poetry night last night. Bravo to all the contributors.
JR, you are a hero in the war against the nonsense in Washington.
I don’t say that enough.
[3]
thx for the compliment, mullet…but the thanks belong to all the great folks and great true patriots that hang here, including you my friend!
[4]
Breaking news …
Eph wins Pithy Poetry Night!
[5]
But these people will surely become Republicans! Within 2 generations at least! Why all this panic?
All we need do is resist healthcare, and all will be well!
These people cannot be blamed for coming here for a better (!!!!) life…
And forget their 40 year history of voting anywhere from 2:1 Dem up to 4:1 dem.
And, all those red states with a million or more illegals, that vote R every election by small margins of 50-100 thousand votes? Or Florida and Texas, who have millions of them, but only go R by a couple hundred thousand?
Amnesty is no threat to them at all.
The R party is sure to win elections if FL and Tx turn blue. No worries. Since the 2004 election showed they have so many states to spare and all…
In 2 generations, it’ll all be fine. (And in the meantime? Who cares?)
Just keep your gaze on healthcare, and pay attention to NOTHING else.
Yeah.
[6]
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens, you are part of the problem!
But, but, McCain is so critical to us and helps in many ways! How can you say this?
The R party cannot survive without McCain’s stature and wisdom!
How can you sit there and demand that everyone agree with you! This is not a critical issue, and we need people who hold all sorts of views on this!
BE open minded!
[7]
When the country turns blue due to 20 million turd worlders , all else becomes moot.
[8]
Delete this post and focus only on healthcare!
[9]
An “open mind” is sometimes like an open fly, all kinds of strange things may enter.
[10]
Stop harassing the R senators who happen to disagree with you on immigration! It’s so close-minded!
After the country falls, at least we can all congratulate ourselves on our open mindedness right?
Aim your guns on the dems!
[11]
An open mind is like an open sewer, all kinds of crap gets poured in.
[12]
When the country turns blue due to 20 million turd worlders , all else becomes moot.
Shut up! Health care! Health care! Health care!
Open mindedness! Open mindedness! Open mindedness!
[13]
You will live by the principle of open mindedness, damn you all to hell. And if the country sinks like the Titanic, you will blame something else! You hear???? You will blame the narrow minded people who shouted and tried to say we should require our party leaders to recognize and act to stop the threats to our liberty! You will blame them, for shouting rudely and for not being open minded!
Fight Health care only. All else pales in comparison.
DELETE THIS POST!!
[14]
I demand to know why this post is allowed to remain up. The space would have been better used by another Healthcare post.
DELETE THIS POST! HEALTHCARE IS ALL THAT MATTERS!
[15]
RWY is an xenophobic, right wing, sexist, homophobic, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing troglodyt, and all around miscreant.
[16]
Another thread shot to hell, sorry JR.
[17]
And I fail to see the singular threat posed by health care, ignoring all others.
And, I am not open minded on the immigration issue. And I don’t support McCain…
So, it’s my fault.
[18]
Wait… Did I spam this thread?
[19]
lol?
[20]
Getting all upset about illegal immigration caused us to lose the elections in 2006. It divided the party, and nothing was done. Illegal immigration is a sore that will not be closed until Mexico has a stable economy and government, which may happen in 2150 or so.
We need to concentate on the moment, and health care is the moment. We should be proud that R’s have held together on this. The next thing we have to fight is the Cap and Tax.
We need to pick fights we can win, one at a time.
[21]
Wylie?
[22]
Narrow minded myopic misanthrope.
[23]
Getting all upset about illegal immigration caused us to lose the elections in 2006.
No. Iraq war general R party corruption, and total disconnect about what the Dems would do if elected, lost it….
[24]
Illegal immigration is a sore that will not be closed until Mexico has a stable economy and government, which may happen in 2150 or so.
So, ignore it then? WTF?
[25]
All we need to do to solve the immigration issue is enforce our bloody immigration laws.
Fence, and e-verify+ slow and steady enforcement to attrit the current population down to less than 5 million = problem solved.
You’d think it would be easy.
[26]
The Dems want the votes, and the liberal Rs think they can out-liberal the Dems and get them.
That’s the problem.
Federico Arias-King, Mexican ambassador and writer, explained it all for FAIR in 2003……
It’s very simple.
US politicians want the same patron-client system used for lifetime entrenchment that they have in Mexico…… Both parties…
[27]
RWY, It is never easy, but now is not the time. When we win back the house and senate, we will have a different kind of R party.
After 2012, we will have all branches back, then something can be done about the problem.
[28]
PICK FIGHTS WE CAN WIN NOW!!!!
[29]
DINGY DIRTY HARRY IS NO LONGER SO PLACID,
HIS POLITICAL PLANS LIKE HIS PHALLUS HAS GONE FLACCID,
WITH HIS FACE SO FORLORN, LIKE AMONKEY BUTT SHORN,
EVEN OUR RINOS HAVE GIVEN HIM THE HORN,
METHINKS HE IS NOW MAINLINING THE ANTI ACID.
[30]
When we win back the house and senate, we will have a different kind of R party.
RP, we have to make it to 2010 with a functional nation first……
PICK FIGHTS WE CAN WIN NOW!!!!
What does this mean? Don’t fight amnesty because we can’t win? Who would have thought we could win on healthcare? (And we haven’t won yet, and won’t, until the Dem majorities are flushed)
I hope you’re not saying we should not fight amnesty…..
[31]
Wow…I go eat a bowl of cereal and…YIKES!
Amnesty for 20 miilion illegal immigration, coupled with instant votng rights (for that IS the plan) would indeed destroy this country…and would, IMHO, lead to a dissolution of the U.S. within a few scant years.
That said…even the dimmest of dim Republican bulbs (yes, that’s John McCain) realizes that Illegal Immigration is even more toxic than ObamaCare. So Johnny Boy will make some statements to try and stay cozey with the Latino population in Arizona…but he will NOT push it this year!
Next year, however this WILL be the next Unholy Grail of the Dems and the RINOs. If they’d been even a tiny bit more clever they would have gone for it THIS year…since ObamaCare would be easy breezy after that!
2010 we need to get enough SOLID Repubs elected to stem the tide…but we, sadly, need every Repub we can in the long run just to take back the Chairmanships in Congress…since that’s where the REAL power lies!
cheers!
[32]
So Johnny Boy will make some statements to try and stay cozey with the Latino population in Arizona…but he will NOT push it this year!
How do you know this?
I’ll bet you a bottle of whatever you like this is wrong. Miss Lucy Graham is in Schumer’s office right now, WRITING THE BILL. You think McCain won’t support it?
[33]
Amnesty was held in reserve by the Dems to use a weapon to split the R party just prior to the elections…..
That is their plan, and if it works, they will hold both houses.
I think opposition to this among the people, as high as 80% among those who pay attention, will flood the zone and render both parties’ support irrelevant.
But, they still have the votes to pass it, the only question is do they have the balls.
But you’re right, the Dems should have led off 2009 with a full amnesty, and had they done so, there would be no worries about their majority in 2010.
And half the R party would have LOVED it, and not even realized the electoral death sentence they had just gotten.
And if McCain had been elected, this probably would have happened…..
[34]
If, health care dies, and the Dems lose their majorities without passing amnesty, then this country will have run a gauntlet of unbelievable odds….
[35]
~~~and if amnesty passes, HC and every other socialist scheme in the pipeline will be a slam dunk.
[36]
It would appear that JR has opened Pandora’s box.
[37]
And that goes for the SCOTUS too, if we can take back the senate and get some leverage of Obama’s SCOTUS picks….
Man, are we deep in it.
Thanks Bush.
Oh and thanks Crazy John. I thought you said we had nothing to fear from Obama’s presidency. It’s all just a difference of opinion.
Yeah…
[38]
John has had too many carrier traps, it has jammed his sigmoid colon into his cerebellum.
[39]
Now that’s an lol!
[40]
The last election put us on the edge of destruction, as a party, and as a country. We caused our own defeat with out of control spending and the pre-surge war strategy. Health care was the battle this year thanks to Obama’s single mindedness. So be it. Looks like we put HC to rest for the moment.
I don’t see much difference between HC and illegal immigration. It’s the loss of personal freedom, and government control of the masses either way. Just two paths to the same end of socialism and single party control.
Fight the battle in front of you. We beat back amnesty and now we beat back health care. Not destroyed it, just beat it back. Obama is still president, the dems still in control.
Our next battle is to regain the house and some of the Senate.
Getting into a pissing contest among ourselves will not do anything except stink up the same tent. Better to be pissing out than pissing in.
[41]
The question is, will the upcoming cap and trade, and amnesty debates unify the voters against the Dems?
If so, good. But if we get roosters like McCain and Graham scolding us for our xenophobia and close-mindedness, which we surely will, we will have to ignore them.
But that will not be easy.
[42]
When a person dies without a known cause an autopsy is done. Knowing why and possibly how to prevent an unnecessay fatality to the human population is important.
The same inquisitiveness is helpful post-mortum an election. Why did one person win over another?
It has been an especially poignant inquiry in the Mass. race, considering the lopsided political odds presented in that election, and how one man overcame them. Here is a few-days old commentary addressing that election.
The declaration of Independents
There has been a growing consensus of opinion that Obama’s downfall was that he and his party overreached on getting their agenda through. They felt they had an overwhelming mandate from a public who voted them exclusively into all the higher echelons of office.
And, they were wrong.
While Conservatives have always taken issue with Obama, it has been the middle-ground Independents that has been swaying the vote back over to the right — the so-called RINOs and DINO’s, depending on which party these people have parted company.
To continue to castrate them, considering their presence as “weakening” party principles, is IMO self-defeating. Instead, it would be wise to treat their concerns with due consideration at any political table. After all, middle ground has always been where most people ideally feel comfortable with any swinging pendulum. And, I think it is no different in the political arena.
The wishes for smaller government and protecting individual freedoms are concepts 75-80% of Americans hold dear and consequently have in common. These should be the foundation upon which a Conservative movement should be poured. Many of the other issues can then be decided state by state, gradually and fairly among the people living there. But, first we need to establish our priorities and expend energy in those areas rather than trying to make the entire board game 100% ours, just like Obama tried to do during his first in power.
[43]
From May 2006, before the amnesty debate really erupted:
[44]
RWY….you pick the bottle…..you are on…..McCain will not vote for amnesty this year. I also think it will not even come up……..very toxic with 10+ unemployment.
[45]
And once this happens, how shall socialist medicine be defeated?
[46]
RWY….you pick the bottle…..you are on…..McCain will not vote for amnesty this year. I also think it will not even come up……..very toxic with 10+ unemployment.
This is a bet I’d love to lose, and you’d think I’d lose it, as you state the above facts.
We will see.
[47]
[48]
Embrace government healthcare if you want to win! Like it matters!
[49]
[50]
Notice that loyalty to their ethnicity easily trumps commitment to nation or to the law…..
[51]
Steve Fleischer makes some good points about why Sarah supporting McCain is bad for her:
Aside from her personal allegiance to John McCain, it is incomprehensible what Palin thinks this will do for the country or her political career, which has made her one of the main inspirations of grassroots enthusiasm.
He goes on to point out the many instances of McCain being on the wrong side of conservatives. Read the whole thing here.
But Conservatives4Palin makes a compelling counter to this. The most salient points in this paragraph:
Let’s keep things in perspective. McCain is not my ideal candidate either. Far from it. But we have to give him credit for making that bold choice in 2008. If he had picked, say, Pawlenty or Romney, where would we be now? Governor Palin galvanized the opposition to ObamaCare and cap and trade last summer. Before she did so, opposition to Obama was rudderless and weak. If McCain had not picked her, my guess is that both of those disastrous bills would be the law of the land today, and we’d be looking at Senator Coakley instead of Senator Brown. Governor Palin and the rest of us owe John McCain a lot. Don’t forget that.
[52]
He did not pick Sarah out of any love of liberty. It was a look at the polls, nothing more…….
[53]
Governor Palin and the rest of us owe John McCain a lot. Don’t forget that.
This is like saying we owe Stalin for defeating Hitler. You can actually make the case, that heaps of dead russians were better than heaps of dead GIs, but it still leaves an awful aftertaste….. and ask the people of East Europe how it worked out for them…..
I hope she fails.
[54]
The consensus of political futurists is that the “legal” hispanic population will continue to grow in the U.S., just because of their more prolific birth rate statistics alone.
Also, while we are in a jobs scarcity mode, at the moment, the predictions are that this trend will be reversed in the future, where employers will be begging for workers. With reluctance foreign workers will be sought to fill service positions, especially in the medical field, to take care of a ballooning aging population of “baby boomers.”
So, be careful not to spite your face by cutting off your nose dealing with how you want immigration to be handled. By being too ruthless and demanding people could be creating cultural gaps that will have an impact for generations to come.
What I hear here sometimes reminds me of a city’s planning commission who refuses to acknowledge trends in setting up zoning or roads that will be needed 20 years from now. It’s all about the present and the positions held at that time.
[55]
Oh, so we need amnesty to care for future elderly? Is this what you’re saying?
[56]
So we need Democrat majorities now, so that when people are old, they can be taken care of by Hispanics?
Well. I thought we’d have death panels for that.
[57]
And, if you’re talking about legal hispanics, there is nothing to be done, they are legal and the trends are what they are.
I’m talking about illegals, the ones the Heritage foundation calculated will cost 2.7 trillion in an amnesty.
Let WEC spam the site with that one, eh?
[58]
I’m con– ccconfused.
[59]
I had an old article from 2007 that showed how Hispanic voting followed the voting patterns of whites, but 20 points to the left.
When Rs got more white votes, they got more hispanic votes too, though never a majority….
There is nothing to do but preach Reagan to all the groups and let the chips fall where they may. We can’t stop people voting.
But, there is no need to invite 20 million more, plus families. Suicidal.
[60]
Geez. Who peed in RWY’s Cheerios again?
[61]
rwy
I have steadfastly believed that you are over the top about this issue. While I am not trying to change your mind, it still doesn’t stop me from expressing my thoughts on the subject. I know a number of hispanics, living here in CA, who are about as conservative and family-oriented as you can get. Oftenetimes the rhetoric on immigration, from the right, seems openly hostile to the culture itself. I think we can do better in our communication skills on this issue, sticking with closing/monitoring the borders better, checking on legal status through employment venues, and citing employers who intentionally hire illegals.
[62]
More on topic with the previous thread, but I think this may be a case of reality chasing fiction:
White House Reveals Obama Is Bipolar, Has Entered Depressive Phase
[63]
…and trust me on this one, rwy, in our lifetime the hispanic population is going to grow, whether you like it or not.
So, it might be a more productive move to see this problem from a whole new standpoint, much like we want to do with HC.
[64]
RWY….you’re cherry picking in 53.
Governor Palin galvanized the opposition to ObamaCare and cap and trade last summer. Before she did so, opposition to Obama was rudderless and weak. If McCain had not picked her, my guess is that both of those disastrous bills would be the law of the land today, and we’d be looking at Senator Coakley instead of Senator Brown.
I think this is hard to deny.
I agree with you on amnesty but I don’t think that even the illegals would want to become citizens. Justrands article shows why. In addition at least half of these guys are sending their money back home and intend to go home themselves. I know some of them. Actually some have gone back already because there is no work here in California. That is part of the reason Amnesty wont be brought up this year.
[65]
Bruce
Most of us form opinions from our own anecdotal experiences.
Being in the construction/property management business my husband and I have had a lot of dealings with the hispanic population. Over the years we have been increasingly impressed by their work ethic, family bonds, and general decency.
For the last 8 years we have been American sponsors of a father and son who are applying for their citizenship. The government’s ineptness in handling these men’s documents has shown me another side of immigration —> why so many people chose to do it illegally. While it’s not right to not apply for legal status, the government’s bureaucracy encourages this mode of entry…..There has to be a fairer and more expedient method for good, productive people to gain access to this country, IMO.
[66]
iF AMNESTY IS BROUGHT UP THIS YEAR, IT WILLhave to be by democrats, then we mobilize against them. Otherwise keep our powder dry. We do not need to aid them by fighting among ourselves.
[67]
Illegals vote dem, but that is just because the dems have spent a disproportionate amount of time pandering to them. They actually (for the most part) hold conservative values, and really are here for a better life. Problem is, they are taking jobs away from Americans who need those jobs right now. They are stressing hospitals, closing them down. There are several things that can be done to weed out those who want to contribute and be Americans, vs those who are here for a free ride. No more sending money to Mexico for free.
No more emergency room use unless they are truly having an emergency, which accounts for less than half of those who go right now. They mostly have babies with sniffly noses. My son split his head open when he went over the handlebars of his bike, he was gushing blood everywhere, and we had to wait in line behind two women holding sniffly babies. I understand a bit of Spanish, and they were not only seen first, but told to take tylenol. They took up two EMERGENCY beds, for something a free clinic could have handled, or yanno….the freaking grocery store. My son had to wait to get a wound cleaned out and stitched, for that….and we have insurance AND paid a hefty co-pay which they did not pay.
No more jobs until they go through the gov, and they will have to get some kind of better system going, because SS aint cutting it. I can go anywhere out here and get myself a shiny new SS card for a couple hundred bucks.
Strengthen the borders, and deport ALL first time offenders who are pulled over for even a ticket. Illegals account for many drunk driving accidents out here. Sweep LA and get rid of the illegal gangs, because they are far more dangerous than anyone fully realizes.
Etc…..
[68]
The democrats are in such chaos that it will be difficult to just get through this next year, concentrating on the midterms, let alone picking up hot-botton issues like amnesty.
Cap & trade, card check is likely just a fantasy of the left as well. Right now they are in survival mode, needing oxygen tanks — public approved issues like jobs and the economy — not ones that are going to take them down and kill them off.
[69]
JM
Good post. And, when you talk with “productive” hispanics they feel the same way. They are embarrassed by free-loaders, from their country of origin, taking advantage of the US.
[70]
OT – What happened to all the HHR crossovers?
It’s just myself and Knighthawk left.
[71]
Over the years we have been increasingly impressed by their work ethic, family bonds, and general decency.
Oh for God’s sake. You can say this about ANY Dem constituency. This is. beside. the. point.
It’s the votes. It’s liberty and the constitution. Family values are wonderful. Democrat votes are not.
[72]
I think the GOP would do well to work with the hispanic community on common issues and goals, rather than disparage anyone, especially politicians, who try to shore up their relationship with these growing-in-numbers minorities.
[73]
You concentrate on the votes, rwy. But if you diminish another, in trying to get votes, you will not get the votes either.
After all, the Constitution and liberty apply to all groups of people. If anyone breaks the law, then it is the breakage of the law that should be addressed, not just besmirching the culture behind it.
Like JM said, concentrate on the emergency rooms, the schools, the welfare, crime and the gangs as places to clean up the stresses and strains caused by illegal immigration.
[74]
Jan- my Hubby’s best friend married a women from Mexico. She HATES what illegals are doing to this country. She came here legally then stayed legally when she got married. Problem is, she gets looked down upon because she is Mexican, even though you talk to her and she does not fit the stereotype she is looked down on for. It is sad. That is why I think it is necessary to weed out the good from the bad, no free handouts, etc. Plenty of solutions other than amnesty for this situation, though to be honest- it may and I only mean MAY have a ray of hope in it. If they get a more fail proof id system in place so that they can be out in the workforce, and because they are legal at that point are now subject to wage laws- employers who have hired the unskilled to save a few bucks may now turn to the skilled if it costs them the same. It would be interesting to see if I’m right. The downsides outweigh the upsides though…..
[75]
They left, because of me I suppose. Everyone wants the Bush years to come back I guess. There are plenty of HHRs who talk an R game but wouldn’t change a hell of a lot about how this country is running…
I think about quitting the site, sometimes. Political correctness is so deep, you rile up conservatives when you challenge it.
If even you guys want to bring back the Bush years of compassionate conservatism, open borders, tax cuts for those who pay no tax, and crocodile tears for Palestinians, well, I guess we are well and truly screwed.
If “being nice” is more important than a nation acting in its own self interest, then hey. History has selected us for extinction, just like La Raza says.
so be it.
Illegals vote dem, but that is just because the dems have spent a disproportionate amount of time pandering to them.
They vote dem for a lot more than that, and have been for 40 years….there is not a Dem constituency group you can name that is not conservative in some way…
guys.
I need a break for a while. I’ll see you all later.
[76]
After all, the Constitution and liberty apply to all groups of people. If anyone breaks the law, then it is the breakage of the law that should be addressed, not just besmirching the culture behind it.
The constitution applies to Americans, that’s it. “ourselves and our posterity” …
Regarding culture:
So Mexico is not corrupt? So patron-client does not exist?
Every communist organization on earth supports open borders. Do you realize this?
No, you don’t. You’d rather be politically correct. You ae being forced to choose, and you are choosing PC over national survival.
that’s all.
Ok, everyone, Im gone, comfort yourselves with your warm thoughts.
[77]
rwy
I really dislike my positions to be misread or distorted by you. Go back to post #61, where I said:
I think we can do better in our communication skills on this issue, sticking with closing/monitoring the borders better, checking on legal status through employment venues, and citing employers who intentionally hire illegals.
How does that in any way jive with what you said was my position???
Why do you tend to inflame other people’s more tempered positions, calling them “PC,” when they accomplish the same thing but in a less “one size fits all,” dramatic manner?
You know, there really is more than just one road in and out of most towns! In other words, there are also different alternatives and means to achieve one’s political goals.
[78]
BTW some of the information in this post is not accurate (rent subsidy and food stamp qualification), regardless though it does drive home the point well.
70 – Probably driven off by RWY constantly labeling them all, I don’t blame them.
[79]
EPH – How do you count yourself a crossover if you don’t visit there anymore?
[80]
“McCain will not vote for amnesty this year.”
—
I’m not overly concerned with this year… I’m worried about the 6 years if re-elected after that. I simply can not trust him on this issue, at all.
[81]
Political correctness is so deep, you rile up conservatives when you challenge it. —> rwy
You rile up leftists too when you challenge them on their doctrines.
So, is the answer to never challange the opposite ends of the political spectrum so they won’t get “riled?”
Is that how we solve the opposite ends of ideology? Geez, I was brought up to believe that a healthy debate of the issues was a more honest way to go about sustaining our country. Isn’t that what the founding fathers did when they hammered out the Constitution? And, oftentimes, after having such a debate, the solution reached comprises facets from both ends of the divide, not making anyone totally happy.
[82]
KH
It seems to me that McCain is for some kind of immigration accommodation. His CIR, though, was soundly rebuked. I don’t think that kind of legislation will come around the bend anytime soon.
But, there probably will be something proposed to address illegals living here. Something that will either force them to leave or a take them to task to become more accountable for living here.
I personally think it is inevitable that the hispanic population will increase in proportions that will weigh in heavily on every election. Some kind of sensible plan has to be created that creates a less harmful and costly assimilation than is now occurring, as well as stopping the flow, as much as possible, of more hispanics from coming over here without proper documentation.
[83]
If we don’t stop the “flow” of third worlders, “documented” or not, we will soon be a third world nation ourselves. They do not assimilate, nor do they want to. They want to transform this country into their own culture, not the other way around.
The time for mass immigration legal or otherwise needs to be curtailed. How much is enough?
[84]
82,
Jan I do not trust McCain he has proven to me he can’t be counted on time and time again. I will donate to anyone that runs against him, if he still wins so be it.
I personally think it’s inevitable that anything short of actually enforcing immigration laws of this nation will bring down, “taking them to task – aka amnesty” doesn’t work and encourages others to come, it’s insanity, Reagan tried it, it did not work. It’s far more insane then supporting JD over McCain as you have suggested elsewhere. If you are illegal you must leave and then get to the end of the line, end of story.
[85]
Feeding a stray only encourages more strays to show up on the doorstep.
[86]
My experience with hispanic illegals that work is similar to Jan’s. I respect them for their work ethic and integrity that many display. I also know many illegals that stay at the cold weather shelter during the winter. They do this to save money. They get a free meal, a bed for the night and once a week a med-van comes around. As JR points out they save more money than the legals can.
So while I agree with Jan my position on the issue is more in line with RWY and IP. But my over-riding point is that most of the illegals I know do not want to be citizens, especially right now. Therefore I think this issue will go away until our economy booms again, and that wont be for a long time.
[87]
#86 Why you dirty blank-blank – how dare you not accept every opinion and speculation handed down by the great know-it-all on everything as absoulute gospel truth……
You know he never errs in anyway – you will probably deserve to be called every profane name he can think of an mocked and be accused of making statements you never did!
Let me see, the Democrats decided to make the Health Care takeover battle their number 1 priority…..yeah,must be stupid…..yeah, thats it! Its not like they looked at what it did turn turn every euro-nation into a socialist/lefitst craphole……no, they just really wanted to help peole….it was a real “crisis” we had to deal with
Confused and stupid them Democrats….not knowing what is politcally best…..keeping pushing it months after months….naw, they didnt think their was any long term payoff for them in HC…..no ideology….
So I guess I “overreacted” to their Health Care takeover…..
As for the illegals and amnesty…..
Let me see, I think I said I viewed it as bad but not as bad a socialist medicine. There may be a possibility it can be overcome in the future – their is some historical evidence and, gasp, a bit of faith in basic human nature that it can.
Govt run HC is a systemic change that has been historically proven to shift the political spectru permenantly leftward because it fundamental changes the relationship to the citizen and the state.
Many immigrant groups have came to this country and have over time have changed their social and political behavior. This gives me some historical precident for change over time – this doesnt mean I like it or want it to happen. I just think its a bit more likely to recover from then national HC as no nation (except those like in eastern eurpoe that just totally collapsed) has overcome or changed it once imposed – and it lead to a fully socialist political spectrum and nanny state.
Just my OPINON – thats why I worked so hard against it….
Now many have differed and I have tried to convince them otherwise but many disagree. I accepted that just fine and realized that mainly we were allied and in agreement on general priniciples. Certainly I didnt start spewing bile and making into a personal name-calling sitution. This is entirely immature, childish, and petty IMHO but if thats your idea of adult behavior on the internet and otherwise, a-ok for you then.
Its one think to act like a name-callling child, its another to make up what amounts to whole fiction to justify your own outragous smear statements….
But even if I disagree on the exact priority of what is most awful on the hard left agenda…..
This is no way meant I felt it was OK or good thing to have illegals here or amnesty!
Its just not my top priority in the list of bad things (perhaps number 2, actually card-check forced unionization and/or millions of new SEIU hired govt employees are as Public Union employees are much more loyal voters then even illegals are – plus they have lots of $$$$ clout over politicans too)…..
And the fact is, their has been no “Amnesty Bill” yet to fight….
Nor is it entirely clear there will be this year if Health Care is in fact dead……
And as I have always contended, you kill Health Care then the rest of the Obama/hard left agenda is likely dead…..if its passed, well then they have the momentum to push Amnesty and the rest…..
If it comes up prior to NOV 10, I will oppose it just like I would crap n tax, card check, bank taxes, etc
This is what really pisses me off with a certain overbearing jerk on here – he takes minor disagreement with HIS personal opinions and twists it into something you never said or supported.
I have never said Amnesty or illegals or open boards were ok – but since I didnt bow down and simply kiss a certain profane and overbearing jerks behind on 100% of his opinions on everything in the world, I somehow became an avid support of this!
I challenge Mr. I-hate-you-now-since-you-wont-bow-down-to-my-unerring-utterance to find ANY post on here or any place else indicating I support any bit of Amnest or open borders…….I will give him a trillion dollars (we just saved that by stopping HC – LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL)
Again, if their is a bill on Amnesty of course it gotta go down just as hard as the HC bill and must be fought just as hard as the health care bill….
Here is my prediction – if the Democrats bring Amnest up now it will make the current HC bill seem like a “Highly Popular” bill as they are now exposed for the socialist they are and have managed to turn just about everyone except their hard core base against them…
An Amnesty bill will get opposition instantly with the 70/30 against/for ration as the starting point….
But I dont think the Democrats and hard left are that stupid……they are getting or will get all the political benefits of Amnesty illegals right now with the staus quo….the illegals are being turned into “citizens” and voters by Eric Holder slowly but surely…..it just takes a bit longer then one big law…..
The Democrats know that the status quo on illegals is a-ok and so are content to just let things play out for them….
As for this post, on “joe legal” and “joe illegal”…..
Isn’t the problem with this situation obvious?
The problem is big government intervention – no government intervention and handouts then this situation doesn occur….
While this who example is pretty simplistic and far-fetched, it seems that “joe illegal” is just acting rationally – he is being offered all this stuff by the government in his point of view so isnt it logical that he would take advantage of this?
Just as many of my “spam” posts talk about this point too – the goal of conservatives should be to eliminate all unecessary and illogical governement interventions/handouts as possible.
If conservatives have a platform that consistently defends personal freedom, individual rights, free markets, limited government and federalism it would eliminate this type of hypothetical situation entirely.