You know he never errs in anyway – you will probably deserve to be called every profane name he can think of an mocked and be accused of making statements you never did!

Let me see, the Democrats decided to make the Health Care takeover battle their number 1 priority…..yeah,must be stupid…..yeah, thats it! Its not like they looked at what it did turn turn every euro-nation into a socialist/lefitst craphole……no, they just really wanted to help peole….it was a real “crisis” we had to deal with

Confused and stupid them Democrats….not knowing what is politcally best…..keeping pushing it months after months….naw, they didnt think their was any long term payoff for them in HC…..no ideology….

So I guess I “overreacted” to their Health Care takeover…..

As for the illegals and amnesty…..

Let me see, I think I said I viewed it as bad but not as bad a socialist medicine. There may be a possibility it can be overcome in the future – their is some historical evidence and, gasp, a bit of faith in basic human nature that it can.

Govt run HC is a systemic change that has been historically proven to shift the political spectru permenantly leftward because it fundamental changes the relationship to the citizen and the state.

Many immigrant groups have came to this country and have over time have changed their social and political behavior. This gives me some historical precident for change over time – this doesnt mean I like it or want it to happen. I just think its a bit more likely to recover from then national HC as no nation (except those like in eastern eurpoe that just totally collapsed) has overcome or changed it once imposed – and it lead to a fully socialist political spectrum and nanny state.

Just my OPINON – thats why I worked so hard against it….

Now many have differed and I have tried to convince them otherwise but many disagree. I accepted that just fine and realized that mainly we were allied and in agreement on general priniciples. Certainly I didnt start spewing bile and making into a personal name-calling sitution. This is entirely immature, childish, and petty IMHO but if thats your idea of adult behavior on the internet and otherwise, a-ok for you then.

Its one think to act like a name-callling child, its another to make up what amounts to whole fiction to justify your own outragous smear statements….

But even if I disagree on the exact priority of what is most awful on the hard left agenda…..

This is no way meant I felt it was OK or good thing to have illegals here or amnesty!

Its just not my top priority in the list of bad things (perhaps number 2, actually card-check forced unionization and/or millions of new SEIU hired govt employees are as Public Union employees are much more loyal voters then even illegals are – plus they have lots of $$$$ clout over politicans too)…..

And the fact is, their has been no “Amnesty Bill” yet to fight….

Nor is it entirely clear there will be this year if Health Care is in fact dead……

And as I have always contended, you kill Health Care then the rest of the Obama/hard left agenda is likely dead…..if its passed, well then they have the momentum to push Amnesty and the rest…..

If it comes up prior to NOV 10, I will oppose it just like I would crap n tax, card check, bank taxes, etc

This is what really pisses me off with a certain overbearing jerk on here – he takes minor disagreement with HIS personal opinions and twists it into something you never said or supported.

I have never said Amnesty or illegals or open boards were ok – but since I didnt bow down and simply kiss a certain profane and overbearing jerks behind on 100% of his opinions on everything in the world, I somehow became an avid support of this!

I challenge Mr. I-hate-you-now-since-you-wont-bow-down-to-my-unerring-utterance to find ANY post on here or any place else indicating I support any bit of Amnest or open borders…….I will give him a trillion dollars (we just saved that by stopping HC – LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL)

Again, if their is a bill on Amnesty of course it gotta go down just as hard as the HC bill and must be fought just as hard as the health care bill….

Here is my prediction – if the Democrats bring Amnest up now it will make the current HC bill seem like a “Highly Popular” bill as they are now exposed for the socialist they are and have managed to turn just about everyone except their hard core base against them…

An Amnesty bill will get opposition instantly with the 70/30 against/for ration as the starting point….

But I dont think the Democrats and hard left are that stupid……they are getting or will get all the political benefits of Amnesty illegals right now with the staus quo….the illegals are being turned into “citizens” and voters by Eric Holder slowly but surely…..it just takes a bit longer then one big law…..

The Democrats know that the status quo on illegals is a-ok and so are content to just let things play out for them….

As for this post, on “joe legal” and “joe illegal”…..

Isn’t the problem with this situation obvious?

The problem is big government intervention – no government intervention and handouts then this situation doesn occur….

While this who example is pretty simplistic and far-fetched, it seems that “joe illegal” is just acting rationally – he is being offered all this stuff by the government in his point of view so isnt it logical that he would take advantage of this?

Just as many of my “spam” posts talk about this point too – the goal of conservatives should be to eliminate all unecessary and illogical governement interventions/handouts as possible.

If conservatives have a platform that consistently defends personal freedom, individual rights, free markets, limited government and federalism it would eliminate this type of hypothetical situation entirely.

So while I agree with Jan my position on the issue is more in line with RWY and IP. But my over-riding point is that most of the illegals I know do not want to be citizens, especially right now. Therefore I think this issue will go away until our economy booms again, and that wont be for a long time.

I personally think it’s inevitable that anything short of actually enforcing immigration laws of this nation will bring down, “taking them to task – aka amnesty” doesn’t work and encourages others to come, it’s insanity, Reagan tried it, it did not work. It’s far more insane then supporting JD over McCain as you have suggested elsewhere. If you are illegal you must leave and then get to the end of the line, end of story.

The time for mass immigration legal or otherwise needs to be curtailed. How much is enough?

It seems to me that McCain is for some kind of immigration accommodation. His CIR, though, was soundly rebuked. I don’t think that kind of legislation will come around the bend anytime soon.

But, there probably will be something proposed to address illegals living here. Something that will either force them to leave or a take them to task to become more accountable for living here.

I personally think it is inevitable that the hispanic population will increase in proportions that will weigh in heavily on every election. Some kind of sensible plan has to be created that creates a less harmful and costly assimilation than is now occurring, as well as stopping the flow, as much as possible, of more hispanics from coming over here without proper documentation.