Open Thread Saturday

2010 July 31
by bc3b

What’s on your mind?

  • Arizona immigration decision?
  • 2010 election?
  • Remaining 2010 primaries?
  • 2012 potential candidates?
  • The soaring national debt?
  • LOST via executive order?
  • Elana Kagan?
  • The “Ground Zero” Mosque?
  • Journolist and media dishonesty?
  • Charlie Rangel? Should he step down?
  • The war in Afghanistan (July had the greatest number of Coalition casualties in 9 years)?
  • Will Barack Obama and Janet Napolitano try to enact amnesty without Congress?
  • Andy Griffith pimping ObamaCare?
  • “The Fonz” and Fred Thompson pimping reverse mortgages?
  • Chelsea Clinton’s Wedding: were you invited? If so, are you going or do you have something more important to do (like wash dishes)?
  • Is Sarah Palin a RINO?
  • Are Michele Bachmann and Jim DeMint RINOs?
  • Are you a RINO?
  • Who isn’t a RINO?
  • Does Barack Obama know who Snooki is? Do you know who Snooki is? Do you care who Snooki is?
  • How do you like the way the baseball season is shaping up?
  • Is there any chance the Detroit Lions won’t finish last (other than a scenario involving a plane crash)?
  • Who  do you think will win the NBA crown? Do you really care who wins the NBA crown?
  • Does the WNBA still exist?
205 Responses leave one →
  1. 2010 July 31 5:34 am
    MI Conservative permalink

    I can’t believe it!

    All the things listed and I’m commenting on something else.

    Amazing how Ben Nelson is voting so conservative now, eh?

    Will Nebraskans fall for his reversal in 2012?

  2. 2010 July 31 5:42 am
    MI Conservative permalink

    * Arizona immigration decision? Could be good in the long run.
    * 2010 election? Republicans +12 govs. +54 House, +8 Senate
    * Remaining 2010 primaries? Hoekstra gets screwed
    * 2012 potential candidates? Romney by a nose length
    * The soaring national debt? I cannot even think in numbers that high
    * LOST via executive order? Executive orders are great until a Rep takes back the White House then listen to the media scream
    * Elana Kagan? Gonna be the most controversial ever after shes on the bench.
    * The “Ground Zero” Mosque? Blow it up!!!!
    * Journolist and media dishonesty? Somewhere down the road someone is going to pull news rog together to change the way they report
    * Charlie Rangel? Should he step down? Hell Yes!
    * The war in Afghanistan (July had the greatest number of Coalition casualties in 9 years)? Kick A$$
    * Will Barack Obama and Janet Napolitano try to enact amnesty without Congress? No
    * Andy Griffith pimping ObamaCare? I love Andy Griffith–Now one of the four stooges.
    * “The Fonz” and Fred Thompson pimping reverse mortgages? Pimping????
    * Chelsea Clinton’s Wedding: were you invited? If so, are you going or do you have something more important to do (like wash dishes)? Not invited but if I could afford a gift it would be a plastic sturgeon. ?????
    * Is Sarah Palin a RINO? No
    * Are Michele Bachmann and Jim DeMint RINOs? NO
    * Are you a RINO? I’m horny, does that count.
    * Who isn’t a RINO? rwy
    * Does Barack Obama know who Snooki is? Do you know who Snooki is? Do you care who Snooki is? Yes, No, No
    * How do you like the way the baseball season is shaping up? $hit–Umps need to be held more accountable. Players and coaches are.
    * Is there any chance the Detroit Lions won’t finish last (other than a scenario involving a plane crash)? Is Barrack Obama Black?
    * Who do you think will win the NBA crown? Do you really care who wins the NBA crown? I hate basketball and coached High school basketball for 20 years.
    * Does the WNBA still exist? What is the WNBA?

  3. 2010 July 31 5:49 am
    JBoz permalink

    You don’t know me because I just started posting here a few weeks ago. I have been politically apathetic for most of my adulthood, happily calling myself either a moderate or independent in social settings to avoid getting into it with anyone who held strong beliefs. To be honest, although conservative by upbringing (career Army dad), I just didn’t vote nor did I care. That didn’t change when Obama was elected, I wasn’t thrilled but hopeful anyway. That all changed when I watched the will of the people voiced so clearly and honestly during the town halls, and then completely thwarted with healthcare. I woke up, ane it hit me like a lightning bolt that our Constitution was being shredded, along with our country, our culture and our children’s future. I am sickened and saddened, but mostly I’m just plain old pissed, and for the first time I am highly engaged. I am not an outlier either, and suspect that there are millions like me. What I am most shocked by is the fact that NOT ONE Democrat in the House or Senate has stood up and denounced what is happening. Not one has said “What my party is doing is wrong, and I don’t care what Pelosi or the MSM do to me, this is blatantly wrong.”. Although I hate Nancy Pelosi with every ounce of my being, I don’t engage in “Demoncrat” hyperbole. While I believe the majority are corrupt and rotten to the core, I have to believe that there are some good Democrat patriots out there -where are they, and why are they not standing up?

  4. 2010 July 31 6:34 am
    justrand permalink

    well said, Jboz…and welcome again. yes, there are millions of “you” out there, and more every time the LSM/Dems cabal labels anyone who disagrees with them a “Racist” or a “Potential terrorist”, etc.

    and MI Conservative…Excellent responses to the whole list! (I don’t think you’re “required” to respond to all of bc3b’s list at once…i better check the rule book 🙂 )

  5. 2010 July 31 6:35 am
    justrand permalink

    more later from me…gotta get packed up to leave for home! 🙂

  6. 2010 July 31 6:53 am
    Big Mo permalink

    Ah, the Fonz. My wife and I are fans of the USA show “Royal Pains,” and Henry Winkler is a recurring guest star as the dad of the lead characters. What freaks me out is that Winkler, who looks darn good for his age, looks almost exactly like my father. So much so that whenever I watch the show, I can’t help wonder, “What the heck is my Dad doing in the Hamptons?!? And on TV??”

    🙂 🙂

  7. 2010 July 31 7:05 am
    MI Conservative permalink

    right wing yahoo —- A rino’s worst nightmare!!!!!

    justrand—-I was bored.

  8. 2010 July 31 8:00 am
    MDefl permalink

    I don’t want Rangle to step down. I want to keep this in the news. Having him there for the time being is better for us.

  9. 2010 July 31 8:07 am
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo –

    Other than you, who isn’t a RINO?

  10. 2010 July 31 8:07 am


  11. 2010 July 31 8:09 am

    I think Sara is not as conservative as folks think. But then again, WHO IS???

    She also supports Title IX.

    Just sayin…

  12. 2010 July 31 8:10 am

    “Are you a RINO? I’m horny, does that count.”


  13. 2010 July 31 8:10 am


    Are conservatives allowed to be horny in the first place????

  14. 2010 July 31 8:14 am
    bc3b permalink

    Mi Conservative –

    I was driving across our beautiful state last night and listening to Mark Levin, who made the following point: Ben Nelson refuses to support a filabuster or other procedural moves to block a vote on Kagan. He knows there are enough votes in the Senate to confirm Kagan. Therefore, Ben Nelson is being a hypocrite, but is able to tell conservative Nebraska voters that he voted against Kagan. I know that both Lucy Graham and Judd Gregg are voting for confirmation.

    As usual, the “Great One” has a point.

  15. 2010 July 31 8:17 am

    On Palin, you people realize that, the more she thinks about running in 2012, the more moderate sounding she will become. Prepare yourselves!

  16. 2010 July 31 8:19 am
    bc3b permalink

    Eph –

    Last night, after about five minutes I tired of watching Juan Williams interviewing liberals on the Arizona decision, so I started cahnnel surfing. Michele Bachmann was on CSPAN addressing Americans for Prosperity. Biy, did she look hot. I can’t believe she is 53. She looks 35.

  17. 2010 July 31 8:21 am

    17. Now you know why conservatives are so horny! She is one sexy MIL*!

  18. 2010 July 31 8:21 am
    bc3b permalink

    Seriously Yahoo – what Republican with a national presence has come out in favor of mass deportations? Most totally avoid the illegal immigration issue. If one has, I am not aware of it. So, they all must be RINOs.

  19. 2010 July 31 8:27 am
    bc3b permalink

    Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Nikki Haley, Christine O’Donnell, Marsha Blackman, Cathy McMorris- Rodgers, Mary Fallin, Kelly Ayotte – plenty of reasons for conservatives to be horny.

  20. 2010 July 31 8:28 am

    Marsha Blackman (TN) – another super MILF!

  21. 2010 July 31 8:29 am

    OOPS! Forgot to “*” out that F. Sorry kids

  22. 2010 July 31 8:30 am
    bc3b permalink

    MDefl –

    Good point. Joseph Cao, who often votes with the Democrats, defeated William Jefferrson. All Cao’s election did was remove Jefferson from the national news.

  23. 2010 July 31 8:33 am
    bc3b permalink

    Consider Democratic women – Hilliary Clinton, Barbara Mikulski, Debbie Stabenow, Janet Napolitano – I rest my case as I am rapidly becoming ill just thinking about them.

  24. 2010 July 31 8:35 am
    bc3b permalink

    Eph –

    Marsha is 58. Conservative women do age well.

  25. 2010 July 31 8:51 am
    JBoz permalink

    Why the hell is Michael Steele still head of the RNC? Can someone please enlighten me?

  26. 2010 July 31 8:52 am
    bc3b permalink

    Not content with the “Ground Zero” Mosque, it appears there are those who are still working to incorporate a crescent into the memorial for the members of Flight 93 in Pennsylvania.

  27. 2010 July 31 8:53 am

    26. The aftermath of firing Steele is scaring the shit out of the GOP. It’s based on fear, that’s all

  28. 2010 July 31 8:53 am

    “Marsha is 58. Conservative women do age well.”

    GILF ?

  29. 2010 July 31 8:55 am
    bc3b permalink

    Steele’s term is up in January. If the RNC tries to oust him now, the media will charge racism. By the time anything gets done, it will be January. Might as well ride it out now.

  30. 2010 July 31 9:14 am
    mulletover permalink

    I’m from North Carolina, and I detest Andy Griffith. Never liked his goody-two-shoes character, and like his politics even less.

    It is people like him that have brought this country to the brink of destruction.

    Now, he is openly supporting a dam* communist, and promoting his socialist legislation. Maybe if he had to wait on a heart transplant, he would change his mind.

    What’s left of it.

    Elitist ba$tard.

  31. 2010 July 31 9:15 am
    MI Conservative permalink

    My laptop is broken, computer that is!

    But I can’t wait to get it back so I can post when threads and comments like these get started.

  32. 2010 July 31 9:29 am
    MDefl permalink

    Again, back to my point. Conservatism is dead. The rino’s ensured that the Marxists would have permanent field position on their side. We are debating their agenda and have been doing so for many years, long before the current Stalinist in office came along.

    Compassionate conservativism ensured the ultimate demise of pure conservatism. It is basic human nature for people to want to be taken care of by others. It is very sad but true.

  33. 2010 July 31 9:30 am
    MDefl permalink

    F Andy Taylor and Opie!

  34. 2010 July 31 9:37 am
    janzam permalink

    MI — a very thorough assessment of all of bc’s probing questions. And, you did it in a humorous way too —-> kudos!


    I enjoyed reading your “confession.” I think you are right, that many people, who were otherwise disengaged from the political process, are being awakened and energized to become involved, or suffer the consequences of their malaise —> more Obama!

    I was particularly struck by what you said here:

    What I am most shocked by is the fact that NOT ONE Democrat in the House or Senate has stood up and denounced what is happening. Not one has said “What my party is doing is wrong, and I don’t care what Pelosi or the MSM do to me, this is blatantly wrong.”.

    Such robotic leadership from democrats is called “lockstep” behavior, and is the reason why so much of their philosophical agenda can be enacted, no matter how insane it is or detrimental to the country.

    Republicans, generally, are far more “independent” in their thinking, spreading out their votes and opinions so that some are seen as conservative, and others more moderate, and even liberal. While this causes rashes of exasperation to break out on some conservatives, I look at is an example of a party having a more open mind to at least consider more diverse positions. Yes, we get the off-the-plantation votes of Lindsey Graham, McCain, Brown, Castle, etc., many of which I don’t agree. But, I would much rather be associated with a party that has a supple mind, versus one that is rigid and unreceptive to anything outside their own agenda.

    BTW, if anyone votes outside the democratic think machine they would be labeled DINO — “democrat in name only.” The same thing happens in GOP circles too. Anybody who subscribes to even a minor thought outside the confines of right-side ideology is called a RINO —“Republican in name only.” Obviously, such labels are derogatory and meant to chastise, even segregate those who imbibe in such tendencies.

    But, just pause for a moment — perhaps if we had more DINOs and RINOs, on both sides of the aisle, maybe we would have some built-in checks and balances in our political system disallowing us from falling off either a far right or a left-sided cliff, like we are currently doing.

  35. 2010 July 31 9:57 am
    drdog09 permalink

    Eph’s point of the day —

    “If we can’t vote them out, we will breed them out.”


  36. 2010 July 31 10:02 am
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo –

    I can see calling Lugar, Alexander, Cochran, etc. a RINO, but calling one of few people who constantly attacks Obama and one of few nationally-recognized Republicans to publicly support SB 1070 a RINO is the height of foolishness.

    Why not do something? Stop b!tching, whining and crying and run for office. If you’re half as good as a politician as you are at b!tching, whining and crying, you will win in a landslide and be able to slngle-handedly save the republic.

  37. 2010 July 31 10:05 am
    drdog09 permalink

    Need to take the long view. The country as we used to know it is toast. So what to do? Well since we know that countries with socialist tendencies eventually go belly up, the only thing to do is help them get to the demise of their mind set as quickly as possible. Then we start over from square one.

  38. 2010 July 31 10:18 am

    “If we can’t vote them out, we will breed them out.”

    As Rondey Dangerfield said…

    “The best thing about kids, is making ’em”

  39. 2010 July 31 10:19 am

    This thread is going to get ugly.

    Where’s mullet with his hot fishing chicks pics???

  40. 2010 July 31 10:19 am
    bc3b permalink

    drdog09 –

    The worst part is that we have learned nothing from history. We are trying to make the same mistakes that Germany, the United Kingdom, Ireland, France, etc. made decades ago and are trying to recover from.

  41. 2010 July 31 10:26 am
    bc3b permalink

    Goodyear dealerships are great. They have WiFi, which makes the 90 minute wait on getting my daughter’s tire repaired far less painful.

  42. 2010 July 31 10:43 am
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo –

    Are you going to do something constructive or just b!tch, whine and cry? I think we all know the answer to that. You get on something and you’re like a scratched CD. It’s been nothing else for 12+ hours on multiple websites (here and HA).

    Last night you turned a HA thread on Romney into the same anti-Palin rant. The last time I saw HA posters attack someone the way they attacked you, it was Chekote.

    You are the one who is obsessed. And you keep ducking questions: name another prominent republican who has come out in favor or mass deportation. Name another prominent Republican to strongly support SB 1070. Name another prominent Republican to puiblicly oppose the “Ground Zero” Mosque. Are you going to answer these questions or simply continue with selective editing of quotes and mindless rants?

  43. 2010 July 31 10:43 am
    drdog09 permalink

    On the immigration front, this is an interesting observation —

    Seems like Holder is on the wrong side of Congress’s intent. Brewer ought to ask for DHS to fully comply and deputize all of AZ police forces per the law. Just to tweak their noses you know…

  44. 2010 July 31 10:55 am
    drdog09 permalink

  45. 2010 July 31 11:01 am
    bc3b permalink

    Interestingly, last night “insane” was the very word one or more HA posters used to describe your rants.

    Unlike you, I have commented on a number of other things today. You are the one who is obsessed with Palin.

  46. 2010 July 31 11:06 am
    janzam permalink

    amen, bc.

  47. 2010 July 31 11:24 am
    gnqanq permalink

    Breaking News:

    The American Bald Eagle has been replaced as the symbol of America with the American Skunk.

    It is half black.

    It is half white.

    And all it does is stink.

    Back to your regular programming.

  48. 2010 July 31 11:43 am
    mulletover permalink

    gn – lol !

  49. 2010 July 31 11:47 am
    mulletover permalink

    for eph

    eph, if you look at this picture long enough, you will see a fish.

  50. 2010 July 31 11:51 am

    I no longer visit HA. I cant visit a site that supports GOProud.

    Sorry ED, but I guess I just am not “getting it” ay???

  51. 2010 July 31 11:52 am

    58. Boobies!

  52. 2010 July 31 11:54 am


    I do think you’re going to be a tad disappointed when Palin “moderates” after the primaries IF she is the nominee.

  53. 2010 July 31 11:55 am

    “The last time I saw HA posters attack someone the way they attacked you, it was Chekote”


    You gonna lay down for that bro ????

    Them there fightin words!!!!

  54. 2010 July 31 12:06 pm

    64. Yahoo,

    Here is where I stand:

    1. RIGHT NOW, Palin is the GOP #1. I would prefer others to her. For example: DeMint, Bachmann, or Pence.

    2. If Palin is the nominee she is going to pick a “Romney” type for her VP. Take it to the bank. Along with her “moderating” her message. Dont be surprised when she goes on “The View” too!

    3. BOR is a scum bag. I stopped watching him over a year ago. But Palin needs to take charge of an interview like that. She cant sit back and get the tar smacked out of her.


  55. 2010 July 31 12:08 pm

    4. Jan is a RINO

  56. 2010 July 31 12:11 pm


    …And if you really believe Palin’s message on illegal immigration/amnsety is confusing now, wait until two years from today.

    It only gets better bro!

  57. 2010 July 31 12:20 pm
    JBoz permalink

    I see the real question here as whether immigration is a binary issue or a non-binary issue. Binary issues can only have two points of view, usually opposite and polarized. Flying a plane into a building is an example…it’s either justified martyrdom in the name of God or cold blooded genocide of innocents…no real shades of gray here, no nuance. Government spending is a non-binary issue as most people agree that it is necessary, it’s just a matter of degree. Wedge issues are non-binary issues where the extreme points of view on either side attempt to frame the issue as binary to force everyone else into a black or white position. I see abortion as an example of this. There are those who see no distinction between taking a day-after pill and a drive-by shooting…and conversely there are those who think it’s perfectly ok to insert a scalpel into the brain of a fully formed baby in the 8th month of gestation. The extreme positions want to make this a binary issue, while most people fall along a spectrum (and I know this will probably draw fire here). To me, immigration is a non-binary issue, though I recognize that the further one falls to either side of the opinion spectrum, the more likely they will be to see the issue in more black and white terms.

  58. 2010 July 31 12:31 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo –

    When you start answering my questions, I will start answering yours.

    Yahoo has rekindled the same arguement again on HA this afternoon, not that he obsessed with Palin or anything (it’s on the Romney thread). It’s always fun to watch a train wreck when you are not part of it.

    Okay, you win Yahoo. Palin is a RINO. Reagan was a RINO. Bachmann, Brewer and DeMint are all RINOs. Ehp, Justrand, Janzam, MI Conservative and I are all RINOs too. The people you are battling on HA are RINOs. Everyone but you is a RINO.

    Now, can we move on to something else? You may not tire endlessly repeating yourself, but you do take a toll on the rest of us.

  59. 2010 July 31 12:37 pm
    patriotmom permalink

    I lurk here a lot but don’t often comment. All I can say on the current exchange on Palin/immigration is that I agree with RWY exactly and entirely in everything he says. I would go even further and point out that it isn’t just that Republicans are done if there is an amnesty. The country will be done as well, and that is why everyone who cares about this country at all should not tolerate the kind of talk Sarah Palin has been spewing about immigration “reform” since she was running with McCain to this day.

    BESIDES THE OH SO OBVIOUS POINT THAT WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS AND ALL ARGUMENT SHOULD END THERE, (and the amount of law-breaking involved in being an illegal alien is quite striking; they just break whatever laws are in their way), the sheer numbers that would result from any amnesty would be so staggering that we could not help but become a third-world country similar to the Central American/South American countries of today with just about no middle class, in not much more than a few decades.

    There are only somewhat more than 300 million citizens in this country now. No one really knows how many illegals are here, but the popular number of 12 to 20 million has beeen used for many years now and is certainly low, not accounting for the vast numbers who continue to pour across the border. It’s likely much higher. Over 80 per cent of those are Hispanics. I know, it’s “racist” or at least “ethnist” to talk about the one group. But they account for over 80% of illegals and many of them, and those who want to use them, continually shout from the highest hills that they have some sort of allegiance to “their people”. As a matter of fact, it isn’t even denied. The pundits openly talk about the “Hispanic vote” constantly, as if it were not a borderline act of treason, which it is. (One ought to vote because of one’s ideals, not because of one’s ethnicity.) Because these people have no interest in becoming Americans; they want to control America for their own benefit. In that they are unlike any other immigrant group which has come before, including of course other Hispanics, who are indeed assimilated Americans.

    Any amnesty cannot possibly stem the tide; it will only make things worse. And along with the anchor babies already dropped, there is then chain migration, which allows for an amazing number of “chains” of others, and topping it off we have the fact that their birth rate is much higher than that of native born Americans. These people have come rapidly, in great numbers, and that has caused them not only to not assimilate, but to not care about assimilating, and as a matter of fact, they don’t have to because so many foolish or unscrupulous people in this country have made it unnecessary for them to do so. The illegal immigration problem, actually, would not even be the threat that it is if the numbers were spread across many nationalities. They would be falling all over themselves trying to learn English and to become Americans instead of trying to gain control for “their people”.

    I have been around a long time. My username should actually be patriotgrandma, because it is my grandchildren I am concerned about. I would like to see them grow up in a world where the law means something. And where this country would once again be a melting pot, with TRUE diversity and inclusion, not the bicultural, balkanized mess that will result from amnesty.

    I actually at one time helped these people, when I was a little more ignorant, in the guise of “helping the poor”. I learned soon enough that these illegal aliens, while not bad people – many actually are only looking for a better life – are a detriment to the United States. They came every week, more and more of them. There were not jobs for them; they just hung around until something turned up, or an anchor baby was born. When my Diocese (Catholic) boasted of a program that was to “train” these people for jobs, that was it for me. They were dedicating themselves to taking jobs from Americans. How disgustingly unpatriotic can you get?

    Well, I could go on, but I feel it’s probably useless. Too may people do not see the threat to our country or way of life, and even if they do, the politicians don’t listen. So, for now, I’m done, except to say:

    Go Rays! Beat those Yankees.

  60. 2010 July 31 12:47 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    When it comes to immigration (whether legal or illegal), I am against it – period.

    Call me a racist, call me a xenophob, call me an extremist, call me over the top.

    Just review the following numbers. Where does it stop.

    U.S. Population
    2009 – 307,000,000

    2000 – 281,000,000

    1990 – 249,000,000

    1980 – 227,000,000

    1970 – 203,000,000

    1960 – 179,000,000

    Since the mid 1960s we have been adding a 1,000,000 plus through legal immigration. From 1980 on we have been adding about a 1,000,000 plus through illegal immigration.

    When is enough enough. Add in that even most legal immigrants cost more than a native American does. Add in that we are importing poverty (again most legal immigrants). Show me one nation that has a large population that is wealthy and has an affluent middle class.

    I can make the case that as our population has increased our indebtedness has increased. What are we doing to future generations of Americans?

    And who of the 6 billion plus people on the planet do you say you can not come here.

    Yeah, I am an extremist BUT I am not suicidal.

  61. 2010 July 31 12:51 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Here is a video of the entire BOR interview, not just “cherry picked” parts.

    Palin’s interview with with BOR was 4:03 and he followed it with 6:47 of analysis by people sure to be negative.

    The thing Palin needs to realize is that an interview with BOR ls going to be just as adversarial as an interview with Rick Sanchez or Chris Matthews as BOR sees palin as a threat to his superstar status on FNC.

    Jeff Sessions is a RINO … Vitter is a RINO … Ensign is a RINO … Burr is a RINO ,,, Inhofe is a RINO … Coburn is a RINO … Thune is a RINO … Enzi is a RINO … Barasso is a RINO. Everyone who isn’t 100% in agreement with Yahoo is a RINO.

  62. 2010 July 31 12:57 pm
    bc3b permalink

    gn –

    I was doing some research for a thread and discovered that Hispanics only represented 2% of the voters in 1980. In 2008 they represented 8%.

    The first key is securing the border as Palin says “by any means necessary.” That may require fencing, troops on the border, electronic tracking or all of the above.

    The longer we argue without securing the border, the more illegal aliens are going to be here. While we have been debating this since last night, I am sure that several thousand more have crossed over.

  63. 2010 July 31 1:35 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    bc3b – the whole argument is moot in my mind.

    The fiscal mess (social security, medicare, medicaid, debt, etc is unsustainable) and the polarization of the left and the right has made this country dead. The country just does not know that it is dead. When did the Roman Empire fall. When the first hun came over the wall or long before that. I would say long before that. The hun was the final blow to the facade of the empire.

    They can rearrange the chairs all they want but the ship is still going down. It is having enough sense to recognize it and get as far away from it as possible so as not to be sucked down with it.

    I can tell you, right wing, drdog and others what I see coming. I can tell you to prepare BUT ultimately it comes down to you. There wont be any government to help you – it will be you and what friends and family you can depend on. There wont be any Kroger or food bank – just what you have or can grow or barter for.

    Madd Max is going to look like paradise to what is coming down the road.

    Immigration is the least of our problems. I oppose it and everything else with every fiber in my body because I fear for my country and my countrymen. And if my worst nightmare comes – I will hold everyone who allowed it accountable. And then I will be their worst nightmare.

  64. 2010 July 31 1:57 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo –

    My spologies, I meant “cherry-pick,” which, in reality, is almost the same thing as selectively editing – use the parts that suit your needs and discard the ones that don’t.

    So, whose immigration enforcement policies do you favor: Romney, Huck, Gingrich. Pence, Daniels, Ryan, Thune, DeMint, Barbour, Christie, Perry, Jindal or someone I may have left out?

    None seem to be talking blanket deportation, which to be perfectly honest, I would prefer. Most are very tight-lipped regarding immigration enforcement. Who, other than Palin, has stuck his/her neck out?

  65. 2010 July 31 2:04 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    Is it still ok for us RINO’s to post here?

    Here is a link to an article that everyone should read.

    I think deep in our hearts those of us who comment here at BJG are fully aware of this possibility but when you see it laid out exactly as it could happen even with R’s taking control of Congress it is pretty damn chilling. I am going to post the entire article in small bites because it is important to recognize just how easy this could happen.

  66. 2010 July 31 2:06 pm
    bc3b permalink

    The entire first half of the interview.

    So, whose immigration enforcement policies do you support?

  67. 2010 July 31 2:06 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    Will Washington’s Failures Lead To Second American Revolution?
    Posted 07/30/2010 06:30 PM ET

    The Internet is a large-scale version of the “Committees of Correspondence” that led to the first American Revolution — and with Washington’s failings now so obvious and awful, it may lead to another.

    People are asking, “Is the government doing us more harm than good? Should we change what it does and the way it does it?”

    Pruning the power of government begins with the imperial presidency.

    Too many overreaching laws give the president too much discretion to make too many open-ended rules controlling too many aspects of our lives. There’s no end to the harm an out-of-control president can do.

  68. 2010 July 31 2:09 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    Bill Clinton lowered the culture, moral tone and strength of the nation — and left America vulnerable to attack. When it came, George W. Bush stood up for America, albeit sometimes clumsily.

    Barack Obama, however, has pulled off the ultimate switcheroo: He’s diminishing America from within — so far, successfully.

    He may soon bankrupt us and replace our big merit-based capitalist economy with a small government-directed one of his own design.

    He is undermining our constitutional traditions: The rule of law and our Anglo-Saxon concepts of private property hang in the balance. Obama may be the most “consequential” president ever.

    The Wall Street Journal’s steadfast Dorothy Rabinowitz wrote that Barack Obama is “an alien in the White House.”

  69. 2010 July 31 2:10 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    His bullying and offenses against the economy and job creation are so outrageous that CEOs in the Business Roundtable finally mustered the courage to call him “anti-business.” Veteran Democrat Sen. Max Baucus blurted out that Obama is engineering the biggest government-forced “redistribution of income” in history.

    Fear and uncertainty stalk the land. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says America’s financial future is “unusually uncertain.”

    A Wall Street “fear gauge” based on predicted market volatility is flashing long-term panic. New data on the federal budget confirm that record-setting deficits in the $1.4 trillion range are now endemic.

    Obama is building an imperium of public debt and crushing taxes, contrary to George Washington’s wise farewell admonition: “cherish public credit … use it as sparingly as possible … avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt … bear in mind, that towards the payment of debts there must be Revenue, that to have Revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised, which are not … inconvenient and unpleasant … .”

  70. 2010 July 31 2:11 pm
    janzam permalink

    Calling out problems like unchecked immigration in the US is absolutely warranted. Gnqanq is spot on when he points out that as our population has increased so has our indebtedness. And, historically, diversity, in other societies, other times, has only worked when there has been a successful assimilation of cultures into the country to which people migrate. This is not happening here in the U.S. Many people come here to be supported, earn extra money but, in turn, do not become supportive of our way of life, and oftentimes not even themselves.

    With all this being undisputed, I see little advantage, though, in ratcheting up the debate more by demeaning leaders like Palin, and labeling others as RINOs whose dissent are no more than nuanced differences on immigration approaches to policy. If people are unable to vocalize their views as being on a continuum, a spectrum like JBoz was describing, then what kind of a free society are we becoming? What kind of blog is BJG turning into?

    I also don’t see the defense of Palin’s interview with BOR as being signs of republicans going to Hell in a hand basket. And, to roast her head on a stick because she softened her comments on immigration, according to some people’s ears, is more hypocritical than what they are accusing Palin of being. She has been an unrelenting and dynamic force for conservatism. And, I appreciate her for sparking so many debates and curling so many toes in the dems by her straight up comments. But, just how loyal are conservatives to their own when they slam her, like some have done, because of one interview? Is the prerequisite for being supported by conservatives never saying anything they don’t like?

    Also, as statistics are aptly showing, the hispanic population is growing faster than other populations. Latinos are rapidly becoming a minority with a major clout. While the dems are disingenuous in pandering to this ethic group, I think many republicans are almost Neanderthal in how they continue to hit this group over the head with “We don’t want you here” messages, that do not differentiate between productive hispanic Americans and the fringe groups that are causing the majority of problems. Even those who assimilate well into a culture take offense at being “grouped” into a hate-filled label. If I’m called “whitey,” I will not feel like joining the ranks with the people calling me that.

    So, while many here lament our future as it is trending, it will not get any better if a major group becomes permanently alienated from the republican party in general, and conservatism specifically. The Latino population shares far more values with traditional conservatives than they do with liberals. But, if we fail to walk some kind of line of civility and leniency for those who earn such consideration, then I see there being far more damage of a shrinking, impotent party than a
    burgeoning latino population.

  71. 2010 July 31 2:12 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    Opinion polls suggest that in the November mid-term elections, voters will replace the present Democratic majority in Congress with opposition Republicans — but that will not necessarily stop Obama.

    A President Obama intent on achieving his transformative goals despite the disagreement of the American people has powerful weapons within reach. In one hand, he will have a veto pen to stop a new Republican Congress from repealing ObamaCare and the Dodd-Frank takeover of banks.

    In the other, he will have a fistful of executive orders, regulations and Obama-made fiats that have the force of law.

    Under ObamaCare, he can issue new rules and regulations so insidiously powerful in their effect that higher-priced, lower-quality and rationed health care will quickly become ingrained, leaving a permanent stain.

    Under Dodd-Frank, he and his agents will control all credit and financial transactions, rewarding friends and punishing opponents, discriminating on the basis of race, gender and political affiliation. Credit and liquidity may be choked by bureaucracy and politics — and the economy will suffer.

  72. 2010 July 31 2:13 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    He and the EPA may try to impose by “regulatory” fiats many parts of the cap-and-trade and other climate legislation that failed in the Congress.

    And by executive orders and the in terrorem effect of an industrywide “boot on the neck” policy, he can continue to diminish energy production in the United States.

    By the trick of letting current-law tax rates “expire,” he can impose a $3.5 trillion 10-year tax increase that damages job-creating capital investment in an economy struggling to recover. And by failing to enforce the law and leaving America’s borders open, he can continue to repopulate America with unfortunate illegals whose skill and education levels are low and whose political attitudes are often not congenial to American-style democracy.

    A wounded rampaging president can do much damage — and, like Caesar, the evil he does will live long after he leaves office, whenever that may be.

    The overgrown, un-pruned power of the presidency to reward, punish and intimidate may now be so overwhelming that his re-election in 2012 is already assured — Chicago-style.

  73. 2010 July 31 2:14 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    • Christian, an attorney, was a deputy assistant secretary of the Treasury in the Ford administration.

    • Robbins, an economist, served at the Treasury Department in the Reagan administration.

  74. 2010 July 31 2:18 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    I love Sarah Palin. My favorite RINO, can’t wait to vote for her someday. Ella es mi chica favorita! 😉

  75. 2010 July 31 2:18 pm
    bc3b permalink

    To more the discussion to a higher plain.

    Bruce, I agree the government is doing more harm than good and as time goes on more will discover this. Hopefully, it will not be too late.

    GN – I actually think we started losing our way in the 1930s. FDR consolidated government control at the highest levels and packed the court. The “Ruling Class” became firmly entrenched and, while college professors were always more liberal than the general population, they really took control of colleges and universities.

    In the post-war era, parents (children of the depression) spoiled their Baby Boomers. Things started accelerating in the 1950. While Eisenhower ordered Operation Wetback, he changed the course of the Supreme Court by appointing Warren and Brennan. In the 1960s, public school teachers were more liberal and activist. Ted Kennedy authored legislation that increased immigration significantly. The media became activist. It’s been downhill from there.

  76. 2010 July 31 2:20 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Bruce –

    I will ask JR if we can officially rename the site RINO World as it appears to more correctly describe all but one of the posters.

  77. 2010 July 31 2:22 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    Bruce – that was an excellent article.

    Did you see the one by Niall Ferguson – “Sun Could Set Suddenly on Superpower as Debt Bites”. Paints a bleak financial picture of the U.S., actually we are worse off than Greece.

  78. 2010 July 31 2:26 pm
    janzam permalink

    Bruce —> a “good” article in that it all seemed relevant and plausible. In looking at a few comments below the article I thought this was worth posting, as it is what is currently happening!

    Posted By: stan45cal(0) on 7/31/2010 | 5:10 PM ET
    Here’s Obama’s 10 point plan: Lenin’s decalogue “Manual to Seize Control of a Society” from the Russian Revolution. [from (no space for all 10 here, but) 3. Divide the population into antagonist groups; encourage arguments between them over social issues. 4. Destroy the people’s confidence in their leaders. 6. [D]raining of public funds; discredit the image of the country, especially overseas, and create panic [via inflati

    The current discussions are following rule #3, about dividing the population into antagonist groups.

    bc — RINO World does have a certain ring to it! If you can’t shake the name, one might as well treat it with humor.

  79. 2010 July 31 2:33 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    bc3b – last year we vacation in the Boston area. Daughter was an English major and we did a tour of those famous early American writer’s homes. When you see what they wrote and thought, you could see the early stages of the progressive movement right there. When you reflect on Emerson, Thoreau, Hawthorne, Alcott etc.

    I read a piece about Emerson that showed how he was influenced and the beginning of the transcendentalist movement. I would argue that this was the real start of the progressive movement in America. How someone like Emerson could start off as a Christian and fall into that crap. The fact that Harvard initially rejected Emerson but later came to embrace him before his death.

    When all is said and done, I believe that seeds of our destruction was not the progressives of the 1900’s but that of the transcendentalists of the 1830’s.

  80. 2010 July 31 2:43 pm
    bc3b permalink

    GN –

    It’s interesting how New England has always been the leader in promoting “progressive” thought in America – prehaps because of Ivy League colleges and dozens of colleges that are immitators. Progressive forces have been in play probably since the mid 19th century, but I feel that the national push really gained traction in the 1930s although obviously there were progressives on the scene (T. Roosevelt and W. Wilson) before that.

  81. 2010 July 31 2:45 pm
    janzam permalink


    Nothing stays the same. Everything continues to evolve and change into something else. That happens in our own personal lives, so why should it not happen in government and/or the very society around us?

    So, the seeds of where we are today (“our destruction”) was probably somewhat based in both the transcententalists of the 1830’s and the progressives of the 1900’s.

  82. 2010 July 31 2:53 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Emerson and Thoreau attended Harvard and Hawthorne went to Bodoin College, which seems to be a lower price knock-off.

  83. 2010 July 31 2:54 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    GN yes, I saw the Ferguson article, also scary, and, jan, that 10 point plan is obviously being implemented by the Dems and has been for some time. They created their first ‘voting bloc’ with the Great Society in the 60’s that destroyed the black race. Amazingly they still vote 90% for their Masters and they can still get better than a 100% turnout in some Philly and St Louis districts.

    Gotta go on my RINO way for a couple hours now.

  84. 2010 July 31 2:56 pm
    janzam permalink

    Bruce —> you’re a crack-up! LOL Have a fun couple of hours.

  85. 2010 July 31 3:08 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    A nation state cannot sustain itself unless it has three qualities —

    1) It controls who is permitted to cross its borders.
    2) It has the force capable of assuring (1).
    3) It has a currency not under stress.

    We are failing on all three. We possess the tools for (2) but have not the will to utilize them. We therefore must succumb in the long run.

  86. 2010 July 31 3:24 pm
    HalJordan permalink

    The Obama administration is running ads with Andy Griffith supporting ObamasteinCare (the changes to medicare part specifically).

    Republicans should run another ad “supporting” O-Care. One with the actor, or a substitute, who played Joe Isuzu.

    “You have my word on it.”
    “If I’m lying, may lightning hit my mother.” (“Good luck, Mom!” appears on screen.)
    “It has more seats than the Astrodome!”

  87. 2010 July 31 3:27 pm
    bc3b permalink

    I posted a video of the entire interview (#72). If you spent more time reading what others post and less repeating yourself, you might have noticed.

    The rest of us are pretty tired of discussing it. You see Yahoo, we RINOs are interested in more than just a single issue.

  88. 2010 July 31 3:31 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Hal –

    I knew Andy’s TV son, Dopey, was a big-time leftist, but didn’t realize Griffith was too.

    Good idea about the substitute who played Joe Isuzu. I haven’t seen him for a while. He can probably use the work.

    I am not sure Barack Obama is capable of telling the truth. He was in Detroit yesterday talking about the had saved the auto industry and brought back the disasterous economy he inherited from Bush.

    “I created ___ million jobs.” Fill in the blank. remember, no lie is too big.

  89. 2010 July 31 3:50 pm
    janzam permalink


    Are those three criteria posted above your own or someone else’s?

  90. 2010 July 31 4:01 pm
    justrand permalink

    just got home…”interesting” thread!

    I do not think Palin stumbling on the “Amnesty” issue makes her a RINO. Nope. I think tried to straddle a fence and got splinters in her butt. After having THOSE removed she needs to settle down to something similar to what I originally suggested: “just stress SECRING THE BORDER as a clear and necessary step before ANY discussion can take place. And leave vague whether an any discussion SHOULD take place.

    Anyway…gotta walk the dog…back in a bit! 🙂

  91. 2010 July 31 4:21 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    Are those three criteria posted above your own or someone else’s? — Jan

    They are history’s criteria, hence I can’t take credit. 🙂

  92. 2010 July 31 4:33 pm
    justrand permalink

    well…while there is no “single issue”, the issue of AMNESTY is pretty damn critical.

    IF Palin or any politician of any Party supports it, then they are a non-starter.

    AMNESTY means legalizing the illegal aliens here in place, or even via a quick trip thru an imaginary and unenforceable “turnstile”. And all the “they have to go to the back of the line” bullshit is just that.

    All that said…since we don’t know who most of them are anyway, if we:
    – secure the border
    – deport ANYONE here illegally who commits a crime
    – make it a VERY serious crime to employ them in ANY capacity
    and THEN create a temporary worker program that has a 10 year wait for citizenship…I could go for it.

    But blanket Amnesty? Never. Reagan, to his massive discredit, did it…and we are more screwed than ever.

  93. 2010 July 31 4:39 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    I might add, that anybody that was here in the US illegally, should have to wait till every last person who filed and waited legally has been processed. Keeping in mind that many from some countries have a 20 year wait. I would much rather have a person who did it legally here than someone who has shown that they are willing to break our laws.

  94. 2010 July 31 4:47 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    Romney push Graham on amnesty? —

    If that is the case, Romney will never make past the primaries.

  95. 2010 July 31 4:51 pm
    JBoz permalink

    I’m not a religious man, but much relevance can be found in the book of Proverbs.

    Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

    Proverbs 25:5 Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.

    Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.

    and finally Proverbs 11:11 By the blessing of the upright a city is exalted, But by the mouth of the wicked it is torn down.

  96. 2010 July 31 4:56 pm
    bc3b permalink

    JR –

    View the actual video (post #72) and form your own conclusions.

  97. 2010 July 31 4:58 pm
    bc3b permalink

    drdog09 –

    Romney has always relied on others to “carry water” and get dirty. I am surprised Allahpundit posted this.

  98. 2010 July 31 5:15 pm

    “I am surprised Allahpundit posted this.”

    I bet he’s scared to lose his job. Period.

    Salem is starting to take heat for HA’s stupidity. Finally!

  99. 2010 July 31 5:18 pm
    BCL permalink

    I think many republicans are almost Neanderthal in how they continue to hit this group over the head with “We don’t want you here” messages, that do not differentiate between productive hispanic Americans and the fringe groups that are causing the majority of problems. Even those who assimilate well into a culture take offense at being “grouped” into a hate-filled label. If I’m called “whitey,” I will not feel like joining the ranks with the people calling me that.

    “We don’t want you here”

    I think it’s very clearly differentiated. Legal immigrants of all backgrounds welcome. Illegals of all backgrounds unwelcome. I don’t care if you’re a productive illegal, well assimilated or have anchor babies, etc. If you’re illegal you took your chances so deal with the consequences. Be thankful for the time you had. Go with dignity. If you express outrage or hostility, express feelings of entitlement, demands for preferential treatment or amnesty, I’ll resent it deeply.

    If I’m called “whitey,” I will not feel like joining the ranks with the people calling me that.

    If I’m referred to as a bigot, xenophobe, racist or anti-immigrant because I believe in Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, I will not feel like joining the ranks of the people calling me that.

    I will go back to lurking.

  100. 2010 July 31 5:18 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    drdog – let the Republicans make the deal, they will be done as a political party. The conservative base and libertarians will walk away in 2012 and maybe well beyond.

    IF the GDMFPOSCSAHP do it, I will never ever support or vote Republican again. I would not give a shit if it was Ronald Reagan himself or Calvin Coolidge – I am done.

  101. 2010 July 31 5:26 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Why is there no such thing as a DINO?

    After the stimulus vote, the health care vote, and the financial regulation vote, it is evident that all democrats are extreme leftists. Party unity no problem.

    Republicans, on the other hand…………

  102. 2010 July 31 5:29 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    Republicans should run another ad “supporting” O-Care. One with the actor, or a substitute, who played Joe Isuzu.

    If they did that, I would start giving money to the GOP again. Well, probably.

  103. 2010 July 31 5:35 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Obama administration is sitting on a report that is favorable to Toyota relative to the investigation of the sudden acceleration issue.


    It’s the Chicago way

  104. 2010 July 31 5:35 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    mullet – think of it this way.

    We have Barney Faggot (D), an out in the open communist/socialist homosexual. His voters accept him as he is, knowing that he is a communist/socialist homosexual. And they will vote for him regardless. So Barney Faggot can prance and dance and be queer before God & country.

    On the other side, we have Lucy Grahman (R), a in the closet communist/socialist homosexual. His voters don’t know that he is a communist/sexual homosexual. If they did, they would not vote for him. Thus Lucy has to stay in the closet and wait.

    Lucy’s butt buddies like Barney understand and feel for him. And when there are crucial votes, he votes the right way with the people no wiser.

  105. 2010 July 31 5:42 pm
    mulletover permalink


    His third term will never come to pass. Unfortunately, he has four more years on the current one.

  106. 2010 July 31 5:44 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    In the next thread up I’ve posted some thoughts regarding our efforts in Afghanistan, although it doesn’t touch much on the WikiLeaks situation. I’m wondering if I’m far outside other conservative thinking, or if others have same nagging suspicions. Comments would be welcome.

  107. 2010 July 31 5:50 pm
    bc3b permalink

    I can’t understand how Graham won last time. he was opposed in the primary and in the GE by a Democrat who was probably more conservative than him.

  108. 2010 July 31 5:55 pm
    bc3b permalink

    There are many in SC that can challenge Lucy in four years. The key is zeroing in on one, but SC has runoffs.

    In Michigan we actually have three conservatives running fore governor. Unfortunately, that’s two too many as Rick Snyder (the RINO) could win with 25% of the vote.

  109. 2010 July 31 5:55 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Obama’s medicare nominee is coming from a non-profit where he made $2.4 million putting out position papers to idealogues.

    And he refuses to disclose the donors.


  110. 2010 July 31 6:03 pm
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “That’s exactly what the 2007 CIR bill contained” [“- secure the border”]


    show where in the f**k it ACTUALLY was intended to accomplish that!

    SECURE THE BORDER is the FIRST STEP…and NO OTHER STEP is taken until THAT STEP is done.

    GET IT??? SECURE THE F**KING BORDER AND THEN and ONLY then do any of the other steps.

    GET IT??


  111. 2010 July 31 6:05 pm
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “In my opinion JR is a moderate to liberal R.”

    you can see why rwy says that shit from 3000 miles away in Florida.

    I’m as good once as I ever was. Let me know if you’re out my way

  112. 2010 July 31 6:22 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    Justrand, it seems you are willing to yield an inch once the border is secure — assuming the political will is ever there to do so. However history tells us libs will not only take your inch, but the next mile as well. Yielding to them in any way is equivalent to surrender in their eyes.

    Let me give you an example. For the longest time, gays and liberals were telling us just give them “domestic partnerships” and they will all be happy. They just want to be able to live together under the same laws as the rest of us. Right? Fine, so California created “domestic partnership” laws that effectively enabled gays to live together with the same legal rights that married people have. However, in yielding it only encouraged them to go the whole mile and corrupt the 10,000 year definition of marriage.

  113. 2010 July 31 6:23 pm
    mulletover permalink

    What we have here is a failure to communicate.

  114. 2010 July 31 6:25 pm
    justrand permalink

    (a) rwy…no one has or will “ban” you. so man up
    (b) if you look at my original comment you’ll see a progression to the actions. here they are for the memory challenged:
    – secure the border
    – deport ANYONE here illegally who commits a crime
    – make it a VERY serious crime to employ them in ANY capacity
    and THEN create a temporary worker program that has a 10 year wait for citizenship

    That, my feeble-minded though well-intentioned friend, would take 20 f**king years BEFORE the first current illegal alien was allowed to vote!!! TWENTY YEARS.

    get it?

  115. 2010 July 31 6:26 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    Us engineers would call it an “impedance mismatch”. It’s never pretty.

  116. 2010 July 31 6:30 pm
    justrand permalink

    mpt…if we set in place 20 YEARS of impediments to illegal aliens voting as citizens…how is that a bad thing?

    because the alternative is thsoe same people voting in 2012.

  117. 2010 July 31 6:42 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    Justrand, those 20 years will turn into 12 years, into 8 years, into 2 years in a blink of an eye. The Dems will see to that. Do you honestly dispute this?

    The only chance I would give illegals is to set a date 6 to 12 months in the future before which they can exit the U.S. with immunity with regards to their illegal entry into this country. They can then wait in line with everyone else in their home country and we can debate in this country what our “legal immigration” policy should be. After the immunity date has passed, I would make it so that any illegal discovered to be in this country has permanently forfeited any future chance of ever becoming a citizen.

  118. 2010 July 31 6:44 pm
    JustMary permalink

    #135 Dude. I am gonna scroll back through, but this comment jumped out at me scrolling from bottom up. No one has ever or will ever ban you. Unless you have a naked hooker as your avatar, or are ? you are pretty safe to do and say whatever. This is why I get the crap I do on a constant basis on this site- people assume that if you don’t agree that you have to leave- and that is WRONG. Disagree ALL YOU WANT, and that goes for everyone. There is no ban-able opinion here, but each side must be prepared to take their lumps.

    I can promise you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you and whoever could sit and have a discussion and have it be totally civil if it were face to face. Something about the impersonal nature of the interwebs makes it easy to get your blood pressure raised over a discussion where it wouldn’t even come close to that in person.

  119. 2010 July 31 6:45 pm
    mpthompson permalink

    because the alternative is thsoe same people voting in 2012.

    Why is this? Even his royal majesty, Obama, doesn’t have that authority. At this point, the it seems the most likely scenario is the status quo — current laws that aren’t enforced. As bad as it is, it’s better than starting down the path towards amnesty.

  120. 2010 July 31 6:54 pm
    justrand permalink

    rwy, if we can buy 20 MONTHS, let alone 20 YEARS, then our grandchildren have a chance

    but if WE the PEOPLE don’t stop the insanity then we are all doomed!

    that is all i am saying

  121. 2010 July 31 6:54 pm
    JustMary permalink

    Ah. Found how it started:

    well…while there is no “single issue”, the issue of AMNESTY is pretty damn critical.

    IF Palin or any politician of any Party supports it, then they are a non-starter.


    AMNESTY means legalizing the illegal aliens here in place, or even via a quick trip thru an imaginary and unenforceable “turnstile”. And all the “they have to go to the back of the line” bullshit is just that.

    Agreed, it is BS, and this is not the opinion of a “liberal”.

    All that said…since we don’t know who most of them are anyway, if we:
    – secure the border
    – deport ANYONE here illegally who commits a crime
    – make it a VERY serious crime to employ them in ANY capacity
    and THEN create a temporary worker program that has a 10 year wait for citizenship…I could go for it.

    Secure it, yes. Deport any crime committers, yes, but I would argue that before they are deported, they can assist in the building of a wall to keep them from coming back in. Seriously, taxpayer dollars saved using prisoners. Crime to employ them, yes.

    Temporary worker program, no, unless they can prove that each family member has since left and gone back to Mexico or wherever AND they can no longer send money home for free- plus they would have to pay taxes, and NO SS whatsoever. After the 10 years, they can apply for citizenship, but the application process would be tied to the current unemployment rate, as would be the temp worker program- under 4% actual unemployment (none of this “gave up working” crap) is the requirement- otherwise no nothing.

    But blanket Amnesty? Never. Reagan, to his massive discredit, did it…and we are more screwed than ever.


  122. 2010 July 31 6:56 pm
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “Jan, JR, others. All want amnesty”

    well, I can’t speak for Jan..but I don’t. So that would be a LIE. eh?

  123. 2010 July 31 6:58 pm
    mulletover permalink

    I don’t believe in a path to citizenship. I believe in a path to Mexico.

    The problem here is the number. It is massive, and continues to increase.

    Job 1 is close and secure the border, then cut off the jobs, and the freebies, and they will begin to self deport.

    Rounding them up and shipping them back home involuntarily ain’t gonna happen. You could load up Ray Nagin’s schoolbuses every night for 5 years and not make a dent.

    It took years to get ’em here, and it’s gonna take years to get rid of them.

    That’s why Arizona’s law is so important. Local law enforcement has the numbers to begin to make a difference.

  124. 2010 July 31 6:59 pm
    justrand permalink

    mullet, you and I agree!!!


  125. 2010 July 31 7:01 pm
    justrand permalink

    Folks (even RWY) the key is that when you remove the sugar…the ants go elsewhere.

    So secure the freaking border, crack down MASSIVELY on anyone empoying an illegal alien…and 90% of the problem solves itself

  126. 2010 July 31 7:02 pm
    JustMary permalink

    Self deportation is a must, and it CAN happen.

  127. 2010 July 31 7:09 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    For all you RINO lovers, like moi, that insipid vacuous RINO Sarah Palin will be on Fox News Sunday tomorrow.

  128. 2010 July 31 7:12 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    JR….a couple of suggestions for a new name for the site:

    Since most of us are RINOs and Newsweek recently had a cover saying “We are all Socialists now”……you could rename it ‘We are all RINO’s now”.

    But maybe better would be Bejohnmccain.

    Off to my RINO BBQ, cheers.

  129. 2010 July 31 7:12 pm
    bc3b permalink

    We need stricter laws regarding employers who hire illegals including prison time (for the employers).

    Right now, illegals have no reason to leave (even if they have no jobs): medical care (at the emergency rooms, food stamps, other government hand outs, etc. are all provided). As JR said, take away the sugar and they will leave.

    Eisenhower had a lot going for him in carrying out Operation Outback: a reasonably small number compared to today, minimal press coverage, the citizens were educated prior to political correctness taking over the public school system. Left wing groups were less powerful and poorly-funded (compared to today).

    But, the first thing is securing the borders.

  130. 2010 July 31 7:14 pm
    justrand permalink

    geez Bruce…that was pretty freaking harsh!

    No…I do NOT want to be John freaking McCain

    and I am NOT a RINO…but thx for playing

  131. 2010 July 31 7:14 pm
    JustMary permalink

    Secure the border and take away each and every incentive to be here, and they will absolutely self deport.

  132. 2010 July 31 7:16 pm
    justrand permalink have the Conn!

  133. 2010 July 31 7:16 pm
    JustMary permalink

    I actually thought Bruce’s comment was tongue in cheek……

  134. 2010 July 31 7:18 pm
    justrand permalink

    at this point IRONY is lost on me 🙂

  135. 2010 July 31 7:28 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    JM….it was meant to be humor……thanks…..I thought it was pretty funny. But I think RWY successfully got under JR’s skin…..that is his game, it entertains him. Better to mock him.

    Don’t let him keep you up late JR. Ain’t worth it.

    Watch Sarah tomorrow.

    Buenos Noches.

  136. 2010 July 31 7:28 pm
    JustMary permalink

    I never said not to enforce existing laws though. That needs to be done in conjunction with a wall or whatever kind of border security that would actually result in something being secured, and making it a crime to employ them along with no sending money home for free. /RINO

  137. 2010 July 31 7:31 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Ok Yahoo, let’s say you’re President, starting Jan. 20, 2013. What are you going to do about immigration enforcement?

  138. 2010 July 31 7:31 pm
    JustMary permalink

    JM….it was meant to be humor……thanks…..I thought it was pretty funny. But I think RWY successfully got under JR’s skin…..

    Yeah……it happens on the internet…..tis the result of no voice inflection. Dad and RWY would actually be quite good friends in person me thinks.

  139. 2010 July 31 7:38 pm
    JustMary permalink


    If there are hoops a plenty to jump through, it removes incentive. You cannot mass deport, it will never happen. No one in our government has any desire to do that, truly. Each one thinks that if they are the nice one who made amnesty happen that they will win the magical new citizen vote. SO this is why there need to be so many hoops and conditions and penalties that the situation has a chance to resolve it self, at least in part. Perhaps the carrot needs to not be dangled, because the conditions would never allow it, but putting conditions there in the first place would keep the rush to amnesty from happening.

  140. 2010 July 31 7:39 pm
    bc3b permalink

    That’s no plan. Like always, all sizzle and no steak. I am asking you the same question BOR asked Palin. Unlike Palin, you have time to compose your thoughts without interruption. What are you going to do about immigration enforcement. Just saying NO AMNESTY, NO CITIZENSHIP doesn’t cut it.

  141. 2010 July 31 7:40 pm
    JustMary permalink

    Why don’t you tell me what I’d do about it. You’ve been reading me on amnesty for how long? HOW LONG???????

    No, you tell me.

    I think you’d enforce the laws currently on the books so they would self deport, just like we are saying. You could try to force deportation of those not in the prison system, but good luck with that.

  142. 2010 July 31 7:44 pm
    JustMary permalink

    #178 I said the same thing……I just added my own more realistic ending to the situation.

  143. 2010 July 31 7:47 pm
    mulletover permalink

    We could declare war on Mexico, and arrest all of them here illegally, put them in detention camps, and keep them there as enemy non-combatants.

    Then, 20 years from now, Chief Justice Kagan’s court could award them reparations in an 8-1 decision. The lone dissenter would be Justice Alito still hanging on in spite of el Presidente Obama efforts in his sixth term in office to replace him.

  144. 2010 July 31 7:54 pm
    JustMary permalink

    RWY- no path not now not ever and me saying that there must be serious conditions in place are not too far off each other- honestly. If the condition were to be tied to the unemployment numbers at all times, how in the world could they come in? They truly would self deport with all the conditions I laid out, plus some more I laid out in the past like no education or healthcare, but this quiets the amnesty supporters, because they will be somewhat forced to lobby for ways to make our economy stronger again so that they could have their way- AND the back end condition would be that productive citizens with something to offer like they are doctors or whatnot would have first dibs with some outrageously small number of allowed new citizens per year. Amnesty kicked down the road 20 years, and even then if the economy has recovered, and even then only 100 people per year and even then only skilled workers and even then no SS ever, and even then, no welfare or handouts ever, etc etc. I have had a couple glasses of wine since getting back from an 8 hour drive, so I hope I am making sense.

  145. 2010 July 31 8:01 pm
    bc3b permalink

    “Is this some kind of 24 hour prank? Tell me why everyone is playing stupid today? Is it just to piss me off?”

    Yahoo –

    Just like always: b!tch, whine and cry. You criticize others while having no plan of your own or anything substantive to add. Then, when you get called out, it’s run and hide.

    You’re the one who started this on two different websites yesterday. Today, every time we tried to change the subject, you brought it back to Sarah Palin and immigration. And, now you’re trying to play the “victim card?” What a frickin’ joke!

  146. 2010 July 31 8:05 pm
    mulletover permalink

    My refresh button is going on strike.

  147. 2010 July 31 8:07 pm
    JustMary permalink

    It wouldn’t matter if we agreed with you or not, RWY. The reality is that we do, BUT we know for a fact that we can file it under “Impossible things that will never happen”.

  148. 2010 July 31 8:09 pm
    janzam permalink

    Mullet what you said in post #183 was what a local grocery market manager, in all seriousness, posed. He thought we should pull out of the Middle East, make war on Mexico, take it over, and then we would all be “one” and not have to worry about that border.

    I’m laughing as I’m typing this.

    Everybody is a genius and has their 2 cents immigration solution in the back of their mind.

    BTW, I think the word RINO has been cast around here so frequently that it is losing it’s punch.

  149. 2010 July 31 8:13 pm
    justrand permalink

    g’night folks…my daughter’s got my back 👿

  150. 2010 July 31 8:15 pm
    janzam permalink


    Good night. More than JM has your back, be sure of that.


    your comments on #193 are about the only ones that I absolutely agree with you on today.

  151. 2010 July 31 8:17 pm
    janzam permalink

    #194 —-> self-fulfilling prophesy.

  152. 2010 July 31 8:17 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    I think Chekote stole RWY’s identity and is just having a good time with us.

    Seriously, I think RWY gets off on this confrontation thing….he’s good at it, knocks back a few scotches and this entertains him. It’s kind of a boring period between now and the elections.

    It’s kind of like the male version of menopause. Nasty stuff.

    Palin. 👿


  153. 2010 July 31 8:18 pm
    JustMary permalink

    You fix the border today, you only solve half the problem. It’s the other half that will kill you.

    Dude. The other half of the problem resolves itself if you take away each and every reason for them to be here in the first place. No rights whatsoever, no free anything, no education healthcare or jobs, no social security, no free money wiring, no right to vote, etc.

  154. 2010 July 31 8:19 pm
    JustMary permalink

    #198. Really? Just like Lucy?

  155. 2010 July 31 8:21 pm
    JustMary permalink

    #200 How is it avoiding the issue? Wanting the perfect solution is one thing, the perfect solution happening is another thing entirely. Honestly, I know what you would do if you were potus, but tell me where our candidate is who will act as you would?

  156. 2010 July 31 8:25 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    Hee, hee….not taking the bait, my friend….soon you will be all alone congratulating yourself.

    I know your issue.

  157. 2010 July 31 8:25 pm
    janzam permalink

    JM — just for the record, like you have said multiple times, taking away incentives to be here will take incentives for many illegals to be here.

    Many will reluctantly re-cross the border and go home. Some will stay, but a huge chunk of the illegal demographics will have the same issues they had in Mexico, causing them to come here in the first place — no work, no freebies. These type of illegals did not come here for the love of America. They left families and their culture behind for money. No money, no reasons to hang out and stay.

  158. 2010 July 31 8:27 pm
    JustMary permalink

    RWY-You are putting words in my mouth, I never said offer it to them all, and I never said all at once. Trickled in by order of importance, ie something to offer- and even then with such draconian stipulations that it is unappealing anyway, and even then tied to our ability to handle them, which may never happen. Honestly, 100 a year, maybe? The minute dangled carrot is more for those gov’t amnesty supporters than for those who want to come here. It keeps them from such desperation that they would be willing to circumvent congress. Oh wait……

    See….it is coming anyway, might as well at least try to stem it and control the chaos. You have to know that the perfect solution will never happen. Never. We can want it all we want. Hell, I want a ferrari.

  159. 2010 July 31 8:28 pm
    JustMary permalink

    These type of illegals did not come here for the love of America. They left families and their culture behind for money. No money, no reasons to hang out and stay.


  160. 2010 July 31 8:29 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

  161. 2010 July 31 8:31 pm
    janzam permalink

    The misused words in this discourse are “amnesty” and “RINO.”

    Even people applying for documentation, work permits, citizenship papers legally seem to fall under that wallpapered word, amnesty.

    And, people who talk about sealing the borders first, are automatically thrown into the RINO pen.

  162. 2010 July 31 8:34 pm
    janzam permalink

    You are putting words in my mouth, I never said offer it to them all, and I never said all at once.

    Exactly JM. That is what I found too, earlier today.

  163. 2010 July 31 8:34 pm
    JustMary permalink

    RWY- You don’t have to learn to love it, you have to find a way to outsmart it.

  164. 2010 July 31 8:35 pm
    JustMary permalink

    This is about as much fun as putting diapers on my boston terrier, I have to say.

  165. 2010 July 31 8:37 pm
    JustMary permalink

    A difference of opinion does not make one an idiot. Unless we start chanting “I heart Obama” assume we are not morons, tyvm.

  166. 2010 July 31 8:44 pm
    JustMary permalink


  167. 2010 July 31 8:44 pm
    janzam permalink

    ..and people applying for legal citizenship don’t want amnesty either.

  168. 2010 July 31 8:45 pm
    janzam permalink

    Good night JM, rw and others. This is a conversation that is on a continual loop.

  169. 2010 July 31 9:06 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    You’re all alone you know……happy?

    Me, I’m lookin’ forward to watching my gal Sarah tomorrow. Then church. Sounds like a great day to me.

    Goodnight RWY.

  170. 2010 August 1 6:32 am
    justrand permalink

    I’m glad I turned in early with a good book!

    my last add on this thread (though folks may or may not check back)

    the “Guest Worker” program I mentioned above would, essentially, be an expanded Green Card program…just expanded to accomodate larger numbers in non-skilled positions. But anyone in such a program would be paying all taxes, and ineligible for citizenship until 10 years had passed. And they could not participate if they had any arrests. Any employer hiring ANYONE [who wasn’t a citizen] who didn’t have a Green Card or a Guest Worker card would be CLOSED DOWN…immediately. Anyone showing up at a medical facility needed assisstance who didn’t wasn’t a citizen, and didn’t have one of the two cards described above would be given medical assistance and deported immediately.

    And so on…until all loopholes and reasons for being here were closed and eliminated. Most would self-deport, many would be deported. And ALL of this would be predicated on securing the border fully.

    and that is the biggest difference between what I would support and the plan the Dems want to ram down our throats. They START with amnesty, TRUE amnesty forall those here illegally…and THEN they pretend to do something about the border. I do ALL the enforcement of hiring, and ALL the securing of the border FIRST…and only THEN consider a “Guest Worker” program. That stops the flow, and reverses a good deal of it.

  171. 2010 August 1 6:53 am
    phineas gage permalink

    Briefly back from exile to state that this thread is more like it. It’s what I miss from Polipundit days. This site, frankly, had become deadly dull. I guess I should thank rwy for stirring the pot.

    And by the way, I agree with him on this issue. That wasn’t the case before, but it is now.

    Let me add the observation that the reason why no politicians take his position is because they are politicians and wish, to use Clintonian words, to ‘maintain their political viability’. It’s fairly clear what happens to politicans who take the Tancredo position.

    That’s why we probably are doomed. There is not going to be any political will to do what has to be done, since politicians are first and foremost concerned with getting elected. And once elected, they are co-opted or corrupted by Washington.

    It’s going to have to come up from the grassroots if it is going to happen at all. The fate of the Tea Party will be a barometer as to whether the nation as we know it has any future at all.

    Nevertheless, kudos to rwy for stating it so plainly. The demographic numbers don’t lie. Those who wish to deny reality do.

  172. 2010 August 1 7:23 am
    justrand permalink

    phineas, I love lively debates! I’m not much on name calling…though a healthy dose of snark is always appreciated!

    as for “political viability”…we need enough Repubs to maintain enough of it to get enough power to stop the Dems from ramming through full on amnesty and instant voting rights…and that is EXACTLY what they intend to do. So slowing them down is the first and NECESSARY step to stopping them.

  173. 2010 August 1 7:48 am
    mulletover permalink

    Lively debates are great.
    Scorn and name calling take over when ideas are weak.
    Humor and snark are always welcome.

    eph is the “Queen of Snark.”

    Did I just name call?

  174. 2010 August 1 8:27 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy, I don’t mind immigration…just illegal immigration. The (incomplete) steps i mentioned would be intended to stop the bleeding, and impose a timeframe MUCH longer than 10 years on the process of BEGINNING to apply for citizenship. Self-deportation (from eliminating employment of illegal aliens), deporation of illegals who get caught for any reason, and a solitary focus on border security for the minimum FIVE YEARS it would take fully secure the border would dramatically improve our chances of survival. THEN a 10 year “Guest Worker” program.

    So now it’s 15 years later and yes, if someone goes through all that and stays clean and then applies to be a citizen they will have shown a lot more interest in being a member of our society than 80+% of citizens!

    your path leads to amnesty for ALL and instant voting for ALL with 3 years and NO strengthening of our border. the unintended consequence of offering no solution.

  175. 2010 August 1 8:37 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy…then state your case. I wasn’t being dishonest, just forgetful (assuming you HAVE a detailed plan). And hell yes people will “self deport” if they can’t get WORK of ANY kind for the 5 years before the program kicks in. And with a focus on border security they can’t get back in!!

    the 5 year pause before ANY “Guest worker” program begins means you’d have a bare fraction still here by the time it began.

  176. 2010 August 1 9:09 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “I am for enforcing current laws, which means removing all illegals and offering citizenship to legals only.”

    me too. on the “removing” part I want as much self-deportation as possible, and realistically there is NO way we are going to massive round-ups in this country. So STOPPING all employment by (as I stated) making the closure of the company in question MANDATORY if they employ as little as ONE illegal alien would eliminate the reason for being here. And by not starting the “Guest Worker” program for FIVE YEARS it would force those same employers to hire LEGAL Americans…and thus vastly reduce the unemployment. and we alreayd HAVE a “Guest Worker” program…it’s called “GREEN CARD”. So that’s a “current law” we could simply expand in 5 years. The citizenship at the end of what would then be 15 years would only be available to those who played by an awful lot of rules for a very long time. Frankly, at that point, they would have shown a deep desire to fit in!

    Our positions are not as far apart as you think. I do NOT want Amnesy, with Instant Citizenship and Instant Voter Registration…but that is EXACTLY what we will get if we don’t propose something viable as an alternative.

  177. 2010 August 1 9:13 am
    justrand permalink


    rwy: “You pledge allegiance to the R party right up front, before you even know what they stand for, or before you get any firm commitments out of them..”


    I have supported, with cash, multiple strong Conservative candidates this year (whether Tea Party related or not). I have supported ZERO “Republicans” just because they are “Republican”. But yes, strategically we need to re-take at least the House…and put a huge dent in the Senate. So after all the primaries I will support STRATEGIC candidates…even a “Kirk” in Illinois.

    EVERY SINGLE WORST CASE SCENARIO is going to play out over the next two years if we do not at least re-take the House. That will put us in a place a do NOT want to be…EVER. I’ll fight if and when we get there…but i prefer we don’t get there.

  178. 2010 August 1 9:17 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy…I am NOT proposing ANY new laws for at least 5 years…and then just ONE: an expanded “Guest Worker” program. But yes, all the current laws will work…except that no one is enforcing them!

    and if we don’t re-take the House, and then the White House, this entire conversation is moot…’cause they’re going to ram through INSTANT citizenship and voter registrtation. THAT is why we need to be at least somewhat STRATEGIC in our political thinking.

  179. 2010 August 1 9:29 am
    justrand permalink

    I have no problem bashing Leftists, even if they have an (R) after their name. none.

    I fully propose holding ALL their feet to the fire. the Tea Party rallies we’ve been to have bashed the Repubs damn near as much as the Dems. Only “damn near as much” because the Dems are IN POWER! So getting them OUT of power is key.

    How many Tea Party rallies you been to, rwy?

  180. 2010 August 1 9:30 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “On the immigration front, you are giving the high ground of enforcing current laws away before the battle starts.”


  181. 2010 August 1 9:45 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy, you keep saying I don’t want to enforce the current laws. I keep reminding you that is EXACTLY what I would do…plus focus on border security exclusively. can’t you read?

    unless you would NEVER allow immigration of ANY kind again then our positions are not as far apart as you would like. sorry.

    but if you DO intend to ever allow immigration again, then you are going to somehow have to determine whether someone applying for LEGAL immigration had ever in their life been here ILLEGALLY. Good luck.

  182. 2010 August 1 9:51 am
    JustMary permalink

    #254 I do believe all of us said enforce the laws.

  183. 2010 August 1 10:00 am
    justrand permalink

    hey JM…did ya get the 2 pics i just sent ya? 🙂

  184. 2010 August 1 10:02 am
    JustMary permalink

    I did, thanks! I like the second one a lot! Very cute! Send me a couple more while I am waiting for the cd!

  185. 2010 August 1 10:40 am
    justrand permalink

    more sent…CD created (it’ll get mailed tomorrow)

  186. 2010 August 1 10:42 am
    JustMary permalink

    #259 How does it have nothing to do with it? If folks self deport, which they would, the ones who wanted in would be the ones who waited in line from the other side of the border. Like I said previously, my daughter’s side of the family waited to come here legally and flourished because they appreciated it. They took it seriously, were given nothing, asked for nothing, worked their tail ends off and raised responsible America loving children. There are immigrants like that, which is why there should be a way, tied to the economy and the unemployment rate, for people from other countries to come here and become citizens. The ones who jump through the hoops, which would be crazy challenging, would be the ones who were here for the right reasons. The ones who came here illegally would not be in this group. You could easily separate wheat from chaff this way. This is AFTER the laws are enforced, the border secured, extremely harsh punishments are in place for illegal employers, any and all services are cut off, clarification of the 14th amendment, etc

  187. 2010 August 1 10:45 am
    justrand permalink

    actually, rwy, your statement “No, that cannot be, because current law makes no allowance for citizenship for illegals” made me realize the current law does NOT prevent people here illegally from going back to Mexico, for example, and then applying for Green Card status and becoming citizens eventually. Right? Assuming they have not committeed a crime that would prevent the Green Card.

    so how ’bout we just do the “Guest Worker” program…and leave off the citizenship except through the normal Green Card process? then we can stop blogging about this.

    but NONE of our “sugggestions” will matter 1 teensy tiny bit if the Dems still control both Hosues when the dust settles in November. For if they DO then they will simply ram home full amnesty, instant citizenship and instant voter registration. ALL of those Bills are already written!!! ALL of them.

  188. 2010 August 1 10:46 am
    justrand permalink

    what JM said! 🙂

  189. 2010 August 1 11:01 am
    Colorado KnightOwl permalink

    All of this…is moot without a SECURE border, and a way to end Visa overstays, which in the town I policed was the majority of the problem.
    End Sanctuary cities by denying all Federal dollars to any city that offers services/welfare to those here illegally.
    Require eVerify
    Eliminate birthright citizenship to children born here by people who are not citizens….
    90% of those here illegally have no interest in citizenship anyway, they’re for the benefits and the jobs they can take away from Americans…

  190. 2010 August 1 11:03 am
    janzam permalink

    Good morning…..

    Looking back at this thread there is a lot of battering that has gone on over the issue of immigration. Most, no all people here, have agreed on the basic tenets of immigration policy —> sealed border (first), cut off all entitlement & welfare assistance to non-citizens, deport all criminals, enforce employment laws so all must have proper documentation to work here. The rub comes when discussing green card programs and what to do with long-term industrious immigrants who are actively seeking citizenship here.

    That is where heads have been cracked, people called names and insinuations regurgitated that everyone is an amnesty-lover, ad nausea, who seeks to differentiate, ever so slightly, in the handling of a rather small group of people who are an asset and who are decently handling themselves in this country.

    I quite frankly would not vote for someone who voices such concrete, unrelenting views; someone who disses people, like Sarah Palin, for her minor sidestep in supporting work programs. Patriotism involves one who loves and defends their country. It does not give extra points to someone who won’t budge an inch on one facet, when there are miles of agreement everywhere else. I believe in some quarters such adamancy is called “tunnel vision.”

    Furthermore, there are a myriad of issues confronting this country other than immigration. But, some want to be like a Tancredo of Colorado, a one-issue fellow putting that state on the line, dividing the votes, and giving the dems one more opportunity to put nails in the coffin of this country.

    I don’t call that patriotic. I call it plain dumb!

  191. 2010 August 1 11:03 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy…oh bullshit!

    rwy: “Please explain why citizenship for illegals is a sacrament for you,please show me where I said it was

    then this: “The three most regular liberal posters on BJG are Jan, JR, and JM, now that MFG is gone…..” hillarious! New name for the site: “BeNancyPelosi”

    seriously, rwy…put the bottle down before you spill some on the keyboard

  192. 2010 August 1 11:07 am
    Colorado KnightOwl permalink

    While I agree with you Jan, Immigration is a huge issue and one that is symptomatic of all the problems facing this country.
    The one duty our government does have is to protect us from invasion and we are being invaded all of this country and very little is being done….

    Once the border is secure and the visa overstays are eliminated for good, then I will consider what else needs to be done….

  193. 2010 August 1 11:10 am
    justrand permalink

    They’re called “Price of Freedom” these days 🙂

    Amnesty [what the Dems WILL ram down our throat if we don’t re-take the House, at least] means:
    – Instant legal status
    – Instant citizenship
    – Automatic voter-registration

    show me where ANYONE on this site is for ANY of those things!

    What JM and I hav been trying to ram through your yahoo skull is this:
    – ALL laws enforced…including STRONGER employer laws (closing companies instead of fines)
    – The border secured before ANY new approach to a legal worker status is made available
    – AFTER those things have worked then allowing a legal worker status…and I don’t give a true damn whether that leads to citizenship, or the old Green Card system remains in effect (we still need immigrants…just the good ones)


  194. 2010 August 1 11:11 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy…do you know what the term “sacrament” means? It’s 3 syllables so you might not 🙂

  195. 2010 August 1 11:12 am
    janzam permalink

    Eliminate birthright citizenship to children born here by people who are not citizens….

    I brought this up when posting at Polipundit. It’s a crazy interpretation of the Constitution, and has been a major incentive for women coming over to this country — to birth a child. Interestingly enough, Lindsey Graham, who has been the subject of much wrath, is considering sponsoring an amendment doing away with the anchor baby clause.

  196. 2010 August 1 11:17 am
    janzam permalink

    Once the border is secure and the visa overstays are eliminated for good, then I will consider what else needs to be done….


    That is what everyone has been saying around here, except… What you said above are common-sense starting points and has the agreement of most of the American public. I would toss in the deal about criminals, as why should we house them in our overcrowed prisons, and employer sanctions/fines, as well, for knowingly hiring non-documented employees.

  197. 2010 August 1 11:21 am
    janzam permalink


    You’re losing credibility.

    Being tenacious is good, being hard-headed, mean-spirited and splitting hairs to be “right,” is doing more harm than good, not only here but everywhere else that you spew your myopic opinion.

  198. 2010 August 1 11:30 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “The current plan is a rehash of the 2007 bill with a multi-year path to citizenship.”

    actually, the current plan from the Dem side is to go VASTLY beyond that. The Bills for instant citizenship and automatic voter-registration are already written…and THEY are the ones that will be rammed down our throats.

    and your statement: “you said citizenship for illegals. after 10 years” ignores two other things I said:
    (1) “AFTER the, at least, FIVE YEARS necessary to secure the border and ENFORCE TOUGHER LAWS on employers than exist today” (hence FIFTEEN years)
    (2) No automatic “citizenship” then. They would have to show that they had indeed followed the law for those 15 years. i.e. LEFT during the first five and then worked LEGALLY for the next 10. We would be able to check that because they would have had to register for LEGAL work.

    get it? *sigh*

  199. 2010 August 1 11:31 am
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “Good God alimghty, I am in a LUNATIC ASYLUM.

    we’ve long suspected as much. apparently they have generous Internet priveleges! 🙂

  200. 2010 August 1 11:32 am
    janzam permalink

    Since you’re so hell bent on accuracy, rw, I copied exactly what Justrand said:

    The (incomplete) steps i mentioned would be intended to stop the bleeding, and impose a timeframe MUCH longer than 10 years on the process of BEGINNING to apply for citizenship. Self-deportation (from eliminating employment of illegal aliens), deporation of illegals who get caught for any reason, and a solitary focus on border security for the minimum FIVE YEARS it would take fully secure the border would dramatically improve our chances of survival. THEN a 10 year “Guest Worker” program.

    So now it’s 15 years later and yes, if someone goes through all that and stays clean and then applies to be a citizen they will have shown a lot more interest in being a member of our society than 80+% of citizens!

    Read the bold and then reassess just who is making things up.

  201. 2010 August 1 11:37 am
    janzam permalink


    Yes, I am not a robotic fool. I do have my own mind, and my own opinions which are “filtered” through my own values. However, I am not applying for a SCOTUS position, where I would then have the job of putting my personal beliefs aside and using the Constitution as my guide for deciding law.

    So, lay of the Kagan crap!

  202. 2010 August 1 11:42 am
    janzam permalink

    BTW, what Justrand said about the legal process immigrants have to go through, showing that they have more interest than 80% of the people who live here, is right on target.

    A Philippino caregiver of my Mom’s, in her 50’s, got her citizenship a couple of years ago. She was so proud of this feat, of the history she had learned about this country, and was espousing conservative values/stances that would stand up to any conservative in this blog.

  203. 2010 August 1 11:49 am
    JustMary permalink

    Eliminate birthright citizenship to children born here by people who are not citizens….

    Agreed- it was a misinterpretation of the 14th anyway.

  204. 2010 August 1 12:17 pm
    justrand permalink

    rwy: “Enforce current laws or watch the Dems take it all. ”

    agreed…but you must add on “STOP Dems from taking it all…or they will NEVER enforce current laws!

    You’ve seen what the Dems did to Arizona’s law. Like it or not, we need a MAJORITY in at least one House of Congress…and then yes, we need to hold the Repubs feet to the fire to ensure they stay the course. But if we don’t have a majority we have NOTHING! At least with a majority in the House the Repubs get subpeona power…which in and or itself will force some Dems to consider what might happen to them and thus stop some of the rush to Marxism.

  205. 2010 August 1 12:40 pm
    mulletover permalink

    With the exception of what Justrand said relative to retaking the House and making significant gains elsewhere, this thread has been a regurgitation of the same debate we have had for years, and a waste of the reader’s time. The plain fact is this administration does not give one whit about enforcing current law. They are openly ignoring current law, or dismantling it, to serve their political agenda.

    The Obama administration is criminal, and needs to be approached as such. Just recently, Judicial Watch opened an investigation into the undue influences exerted on Judge Bolten in rendering her SB1070 opinion. In other words, chicago pressure was applied to get the desired judicial result.

    We are not a nation of laws anymore. Obeying current law is no longer the solution……..

    at least, not until a political reversal.

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