If America doesn’t care…

2012 November 8
by justrand

…why should we??  Me, you, any of us?

That is the issue we are struggling with vis-a-vis leaving the site up and continuing to put our energies into it.  For make no mistake, there is NO way to interpret the results of the election just past other than this: over 2/3 of voting-age Americans DO NOT GIVE A DAMN about our headlong rush away from freedom, and towards Socialism. 

  • Just OVER 1/3 of voting-age Americans EMBRACE that headlong rush…and voted for Obama
  • 1/3 of voting-age Americans either don’t know or don’t care about our headlong rush…and thus DID NOT VOTE
  • Just UNDER 1/3 of voting-age Americans OPPOSE the headlong rush…they’re the only ones who voted for Romney

Obama won based on that math.  The next Socialist/Marxist will use the same math.

Please focus on this topic, and help us answer these questions:

  • Did we make a difference?  Even ONE vote?
  • Can we make a difference? Even ONE vote?
  • Will ANYTHING make a difference? Even ONE vote?
  • What steps can/could/should we take if indeed a difference CAN be made?

Because right now, I’m not seeing it.  My passion, experience, knowledge and intellect have been on display for four years here (and that of all our excellent posters & commenters!)…and right now my energy level is stuck on ZERO (as is some of theirs).

Be aware, if we keep the site up…it will need to change in some respects regardless.  Some of those changes may be hard to understand and/or accept.


65 Responses leave one →
  1. 2012 November 8 5:18 pm
    justrand permalink

    please use the other thread as an Open Thread…and help us answer these very real questions.

    {sorry about the gloomy nature of this post}

  2. 2012 November 8 5:20 pm
    justrand permalink

    Historical note: the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 breakdown is IDENTICAL to the breakdown in 1776

    1/3 wanted FREEDOM
    1/3 wanted the status quo…stay under British rule
    1/3 did not care…they just wanted life to go along

  3. 2012 November 8 5:42 pm
    JustMary permalink

    How I would LOVE to have a time machine.

  4. 2012 November 8 5:56 pm
    JBoz permalink

    Hi all,

    First, glad to know you are still here. Bridge over troubled water….that is BJG to me.

    Second, we lost because the base didn’t turn out. But, they did in 2010…so why not this time? Simple…Romneycare. What fired up the base in 2010 was the assault on our freedoms and overreach of government that was epitomized by Obamacare. Chick Fil A tapped into that as well. Mitt is a decent man with many good ideas, but as the author of Romneycare he was worst possible standard bearer to reignite that passion.

    Third, Americans are lazy, ignorant and spoiled. Maybe we do need to go through some ridiculously bad times for a generation or two to understand that the way our forefathers did.

  5. 2012 November 8 5:56 pm
    JBoz permalink

    Sorry for the double post. Fast on the trigger finger.

  6. 2012 November 8 6:03 pm
    JustMary permalink

    haha no worries. I’ll grab it.

  7. 2012 November 8 6:06 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Christie calls Obama to congratulate him; sends Romney an email:


    The Fatman is a snake.

  8. 2012 November 8 6:07 pm
    JustMary permalink

    Third, Americans are lazy, ignorant and spoiled. Maybe we do need to go through some ridiculously bad times for a generation or two to understand that the way our forefathers did.

    This thread needs to be about just that. What did our forefathers do? What were they willing to do, and endure? What are WE willing to go through? Is it worth it? Will it work? I am AMAZED by how many of my friends have ZERO earthquake preps. None. Not even an extra can of soup. These are Christians, too. They treated the election the same way. And while it isn’t like God won’t/can’t save us, should we really be such bad stewards of our money? Those who had to stock up on killed/canned foods for the winter- were they unsaved so God couldn’t have protected them if they just sat there like the grasshopper? No! God gave them a brain, and they used it.

  9. 2012 November 8 6:09 pm
    JustMary permalink

    We are indeed a spoiled generation. But just as we wish for instant gratification, we will be instantly gone when trouble arrives. Drive thru destruction. Dumpster diving within 3 days…in America!!!!! Oy oy oy.

  10. 2012 November 8 6:10 pm
    bc3b permalink

    On election night we discussed the exit surveys and how they shocked us. Either one of two things happened: 1) the youth/minority percentage of the vote skewed the results of 2) there were a ton of dumb a$$ people who voted on Tuesday.

    My money is on #2.

  11. 2012 November 8 6:13 pm
    bc3b permalink

    JM –

    Every generation since the “Greatest Generation” has been spoiled. The hippies of the 1960 were the children of WWII vets who grew up during the Great Depression and wanted to provide their children with all the things they didn’t have.

    Am I wrong JR, drdog, ip, MIC?

  12. 2012 November 8 6:15 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    BC, go over to hotair. Allah has a interesting breakdown on the exits. Essentially us honkey’s stayed home. We did ourselves in.

  13. 2012 November 8 6:21 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Boeing announces major layoffs:


    I wonder how many other defense contractors followed Obama’s request that defense contractors wait until after the election to announce layoffs?

  14. 2012 November 8 6:21 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    BC, 11,

    Not by much.

    My own experience tracked what you depict. I just did not go hippy for some reason. I did protest against the VN war tho. But not for the reasons most did — I was pissed we were not in it to win it. If you are not in it to win, then don’t go to war.

  15. 2012 November 8 6:28 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Mark Levin is really ripping John Boehner a new a-hole tonight.

  16. 2012 November 8 6:28 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    I wonder how many other defense contractors followed Obama’s request that defense contractors wait until after the election to announce layoffs? — BC

    It is not just DoD suckers. Something like 136k firms have filed intentions for major layoffs. Firms, not people.

  17. 2012 November 8 6:34 pm
    justrand permalink

    Well…if we can’t save America…then what do we do?

  18. 2012 November 8 6:34 pm
    drdog09 permalink


  19. 2012 November 8 6:36 pm
    JBoz permalink

    #17 – only 2 choices. Hunker down and keep a low profile, or go down swinging.

  20. 2012 November 8 6:37 pm
    JBoz permalink

    Oh, there is a 3rd option. Start believing in unicorns and rainbows. If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em. Doesn’t work for me, but I’m sure there are plenty of fair weather patriots going that direction.

  21. 2012 November 8 6:39 pm

    “What did our forefathers do?”

    The real short version – They took up arms and killed the representatives of their oppressors. Is it that time again?

  22. 2012 November 8 6:48 pm

    What are WE willing to go through?

    Far less than they did, but then again we have advanced a little since then.

    Is it worth it?

    Each has to determine that on their own.

    Will it work?
    Probably not, probably out manned, definitely out gunned, definitely out pressed, but you never know, down and out with the odds stacked against us is usually when we do our best work. 😉 Bad comparison but look at the Taliban..like the energizer bunny – still going.

  23. 2012 November 8 6:51 pm

    Well…if we can’t save America…then what do we do?

    Watch it fall apart and then hopefully be prepared enough to lead in the picking up and reassembly of the pieces. Perhaps we’ll have better luck then they did with humpty dumpty.

  24. 2012 November 8 6:56 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    I have a better answer for 17 & 23.

    Think Amish.

    Conservatives should take the same tact as the Amish. They are not mainstream, they follow their beliefs, they survive and thrive. We should consider ourselves a subculture in the mileiu of abashed Liberalism. The mechanics of the capitalist system don’t disappear. Even in communist Russia the kulaks ultimately gained a shakey truce as the commisars depended on their small plot output to survive the failures of the collectives. Those small plots are still a feature of Russia today.

    Being called a Hayek has a certain ring to it.

  25. 2012 November 8 7:01 pm

    24 – There you go being all constructive and educational at the same time again… 😉

  26. 2012 November 8 7:05 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    25, Ha! My nature I guess. 🙂

  27. 2012 November 8 7:21 pm

    Don’t ever lose it!

  28. 2012 November 8 7:24 pm
    justrand permalink

    hmmm…so far the options are (and I’m not picking on anybody):

    – “Americans are lazy, ignorant and spoiled. Maybe we do need to go through some ridiculously bad times for a generation or two to understand that the way our forefathers did.” (i.e., chill out)
    – our forefathers…took up arms and killed the representatives of their oppressors (i.e., rebel)
    – Watch it fall apart and then hopefully be prepared enough to lead in the picking up and reassembly of the pieces
    – become Amish

    I may have missed some subtleties in there 🙂

    sigh…but what I haven’t heard is anyone express an opinion that Americans can be roused from their stupor, at this point at least

    maybe when Unemployment hits 20%…and everyone is starving. maybe THEN Americans will FINALLY hold Lord Obama accountable?!? Nah…it’s Bush’s fault!

    oh well…back to my glass of wine! 🙂

  29. 2012 November 8 7:29 pm

    “maybe when Unemployment hits 20%…and everyone is starving. maybe THEN Americans will FINALLY hold Lord Obama accountable?”

    Working for the Ministry of Truth you should know you’ll never allow it to get that high! Though if u3 did\does yes it’s certainly possible people will snap and maybe go the other way, I wouldn’t say they’d really wake up (some might), but the collective may very well vote in a different party promising…you guessed it…some hope and some change…. 😉

  30. 2012 November 8 7:31 pm
    brucefdb permalink

    On the previous thread jr asked me to post my thoughts on whether to continue:

    I really think, jr, that you are an inspirational guy and a talented communicator…..but is this site, at this time, where your time and energy should be spent? Only you can answer that.

    I have been spending around 4 hrs a day on politics the last year….I look forward to having that time to be productive in other good works. So, personally, whether the site continues or not, I am taking some time off. But I hope to stay in touch.

  31. 2012 November 8 7:34 pm
    justrand permalink

    KH…correct, Sir!

    Right now people now (a) unemployment is much higher than they are being told, (b) there is REAL inflation, (c) the Federal response to Hurricane Sandy has been a disaster!!

    and yet…they didn’t want to believe their “lyin’ eyes”…and reelected Obama

    WBF, as IP would say

    So…did we change ONE vote?

  32. 2012 November 8 7:42 pm
    mulletover permalink

    The top five most accurate pollsters were liberal, PPP being #1. Ras and Gallup were 24 and 25. Turnout was the key. For the conspiracy theorists, the leading ones using D5,D6 provided cover for the over-voting. It would be interesting to see votes cast compared to voter registration and/or precinct population with actual street addresses. I doubt it will be done or made available.

    College students were voting twice in NC using their student residency rolls, then later in their hometowns. Officials gave them a pass.

    Some GOP candidates were particularly targeted with sleazy tactics. Allen West, for sure because of his courage and outspokeness. Mia Love, too because of her appeal. She went into her race with a 10 point lead and lost. Strange.

    As for whether we can make a single vote difference, the deck is being quickly stacked against us. The party with ethics and adherence to rule of law will lose to the party of lawlessness.

    Honey badger Holder don’t give a sh!t.

  33. 2012 November 8 7:43 pm
    JBoz permalink

    Honestly, as I run through the various outcome scenarios, I believe that when the sh1t blows up, the eventual fracture of the union is inevitable. Three to five separate nations, with a common language and similar cultures, but governed differently. I just don’t see how the USA as we know it stays afloat. But there is a blueprint, and enough people who are pragmatic enough to recognize what works and what doesn’t work. I could easily transition to a little red state mini-nation down south. Might be time to pick up some property in Texas, just to have an anchor there.

  34. 2012 November 8 7:49 pm

    We can all do what we do with a computer when we put it in sleep mode, or when a bear hibernates.

    Hunker down and spend only enough to meet the bare necessities. Not one dime extra that might help the system. Reserve power (money) for later. Every financial transaction results in some form of tax accrued to the state. Barter where possible.
    Narrow your circle of friends to like minded people,as it is a waste of resources to cast your pearls before the swine. Befriend no demokrat. Remove the philistines from your life.
    Try to sit back as an observer and just watch the meltdown.

    In this case I believe nihilism is our ally

  35. 2012 November 8 7:51 pm
    bc3b permalink

    Mullet –

    College students were voting twice in NC using their student residency rolls, then later in their hometowns. Officials gave them a pass.

    I am sure North Carolina isn’t the only state where this occurs. I wonder how many people are registered under multiple addresses, how many of the “dearly departed” or illegal aliens I have to believe voter fraud is a major part of the Dems’ campaign strategy.

  36. 2012 November 8 7:54 pm
    drdog09 permalink


    There’s 2.5 acres across the street from the homestead if you are interested.

  37. 2012 November 8 8:02 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    Like IP, find like minded people and associate with such.

    It is going to blow up. Just a matter of time. Rush said it today that California is America’s future. Balkanization. Thus why to find like minded people and prepare.

  38. 2012 November 8 8:08 pm
    JBoz permalink

    Curious…In a post-meltdown, Balkanized new reality with a half-dozen independent states, what happens to the $16T (or whatever it mushrooms to between now and then) in debt?

  39. 2012 November 8 8:10 pm

    Pick your friends and neighbors carefully if you can, as they will kill you for your stuff
    if they can. When the gubmint nipple is taken away, there will be a national temper tantrum.

  40. 2012 November 8 8:11 pm
    JBoz permalink

    DrDog – what town?

  41. 2012 November 8 8:12 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    Re: If America doesn’t care…

    We should consider we have a different purpose now. America the land is just that. We all love it, but its because we are part of it. But the reality is its the We part of it that is what is America. So we should consider our mission to support each other, gain strength in converts, teach the Gospel of the Founders and The Word. Be that alternative. To do that we ourselves must be walking billboards of the conservative way of prosperity.

    There is a closing scene in Fahrenheit 451 where the protagonist in the story has submitted to be A Book. The society has outlawed both books and capital punishment. By being A Book the art of the word lived on. The scene closes with the older Book reciting and correcting the protagonist’s recall of the work.

    In a modified form that should be our mission.

  42. 2012 November 8 8:14 pm

    JBoz permalink

    Curious…In a post-meltdown, Balkanized new reality with a half-dozen independent states, what happens to the $16T (or whatever it mushrooms to between now and then) in debt?

    If such a balkanization is ever attempted, the chaos would be such that russia or china would simply wipe us out while we were otherwise occupied with the details.

  43. 2012 November 8 8:16 pm
    gnqanq permalink

    JBoz – that debt belongs to the long depart U.S.A.. Would you if you lived in Michigan be responsible for the debt in Minnesota?

  44. 2012 November 8 8:18 pm

    Dr mutly lives about 30 miles away from IP as the crow flies.

    (I think) 😀

  45. 2012 November 8 8:18 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Allen West gets some good news, but it’s early in the recount.


  46. 2012 November 8 8:19 pm

    But we get grayson back again.

  47. 2012 November 8 8:21 pm
    drdog09 permalink

    Give +- a mile IP be correct.

  48. 2012 November 8 8:23 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Russia will repossess Alaska.

    China will take Hawaii.

  49. 2012 November 8 8:25 pm

    One wonders why the good DR. would give the enemy his exact whereabouts. Stockholm syndrome perhaps.?? The black choppers will know exactly where to land.

  50. 2012 November 8 8:26 pm

    China can have hawaii

  51. 2012 November 8 8:27 pm
    justrand permalink

    Drdog’s #41 is along where my thinking is going, along with IP’s #34. But what about money tied up in 401ks?

  52. 2012 November 8 8:27 pm
    mulletover permalink

    How does a dog live on property with no trees?

    Ya’ll got fire hydrants?

    I have this funny vision of the dogs trying to pee on tumbleweed before it blows away.

  53. 2012 November 8 8:31 pm
    JBoz permalink

    I could easily become a Texan. I lived there from 2002 to 2004 and really like it. I just took a new job, and have of my direct reports live in Texas, so I go there often. Yep, I could easily become a Texan, but never a Cowboys fan.

  54. 2012 November 8 8:32 pm

    Mullet. check out post 46 click on the map. the mutley has ample pee trees .

  55. 2012 November 8 8:33 pm
    mulletover permalink

    401k’s require professional advice if you are inclined to take your money out.

    De gubmit got their hooks in more ways than one.

  56. 2012 November 8 8:36 pm
    justrand permalink

    Mullet, I’ve considered pulling it out…but there’s nowhere else to put it

  57. 2012 November 8 8:36 pm

    ~~~~for jboz~~~

    A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

    – Marcus Tullius Cicero,

    Ancient Roman Lawyer, Writer, Scholar, Orator and Statesman, (106 BC-43 BC)

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

    ~~~C. S. Lewis

    Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

    Justice Louis D. Brandeis, dissenting, Olmstead v. United States, 277 US 479 (1928)



    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety .
    Benjamin Franklin (1706 – 1790)

  58. 2012 November 8 8:46 pm
    JustMary permalink

    #34 THIS

  59. 2012 November 8 8:52 pm
    mulletover permalink

    “Mullet, I’ve considered pulling it out…but there’s nowhere else to put it.”

    It’s a full tax hit to exit, plus a 10% penalty if you are not 59 and a half. That’s 35% now, and likely to go to 39.5% in the near future, plus state.

    I say get professional advice because there are always loopholes, and tax advisers may know some. If you’re like me, you got a decent percentage of your wealth residing there. Makes their fees worthwhile.

    As for where to put it, well, that’s another set of advisers.

  60. 2012 November 8 8:55 pm

    But what about money tied up in 401ks?

    The only safe way is in a swiss gold deposit.

  61. 2012 November 8 8:57 pm

    As for where to put it, well, that’s another set of advisers.
    It must be out of the reach of big brother. There will be safe foreign havens somewhere, as the george soros of the world will need a place to hide theirs.

  62. 2012 November 8 9:03 pm
    mulletover permalink

    Don’t hide it in the mattress as it would then be in jeopardy when the broad-breasted mattress thrashers start migrating.

    They are a federally protected migratory bird species, ya know.

    Come down the flyway from Las Vegas and Reno, right across your state to Miami.

  63. 2012 November 8 9:44 pm
    Federalist permalink

    It is wierd how Atlas Shrugged is actually coming true. Throw in a little of Matt Bracken’s fiction coming about…man the Chinese curse about Living in Interesting Times…scary

  64. 2012 November 8 9:44 pm
    SeanBG permalink

    Well folks, I do hope you leave this site up. After a 2 day cool down period of shaming Gary Johnson voters and those that just did not vote and outright stating they are the cause for the current election. Then a brief period of time thinking maybe it is the time that red states sever ties with blue states since we really don’t have much in common. I think we need a site like this because real news will become scarce and good ideas will be few.

  65. 2012 November 9 5:47 am

    31 – As I mentioned in the other thread you changed my vote.

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