Deep Cuts Threaten to Reshape Kalifornia

2009 May 31
by bc3b

Citizens of the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia – What do you think? Is Armageddon here? Will the Republik survive? Can Arnold come back and save the day? Are any of you considering relocating to more solvent states like Illinois or Michigan? Or will Kalifornia simply become part of Republica del Norte if Calderon talks tough to Obama? Lots of interesting possibilities.

terminator.jpg

Not like it was scripted.

74 Responses leave one →
  1. 2009 May 31 5:58 am
    [1]
    phineas gage permalink

    Come on, there is no mystery about what will happen.

    The state will go bankrupt and will be bailed out by the feds (i.e. even more of our tax dollars, why they don’t really have because they have already spent it all and then some ).

    Do you think Obama is going to let down all his liberal union friends, and risk the chance of California actually trending conservative?

    The state will continue to march even further to the left. Productive citizens will continue to flee the state. This will continue until the overall national meltdown.

  2. 2009 May 31 5:59 am
    [2]
    phineas gage permalink

    ‘which’

  3. 2009 May 31 6:42 am
    [3]
    bc3b permalink

    The only question is how much can Zero bail out?

    I look for a lot of companies to start following Nissan’s lead and relocate their businesses out of the “Golden State.” It’s too expensive to do business there with far too much regulation.

    I nread an article about a woman who relocated from California to Nashville with Nissan about three years ago. She went from a 1,200 sq. ft. house to a 4,000 one and still had money left over.

  4. 2009 May 31 6:44 am
    [4]
    justrand permalink

    “Reshape Kalifornia”?? that is the ONLY hope! Kalifornia is really FOUR States:
    (1) A thin strip of DEEP BLUE along the coast, stretching from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
    (2) Far NorthWest Kalifornia is, Dude, a haven for druggies and aging hippies who want to either merge with Oregon, form their own State or, like whatever… (who’s got the munchies?)
    (3) Far SouthEast Kalifornia is, essentially, Mexico. Adios.
    (4) The REST of California is filled with mostly REAL PEOPLE…including San Diego.

    We only lack a Moses to lead us from the other 3 areas into a new Bear Flag Republic (including the Central Valley!)…and we’ll be just fine!

    *sigh* Fantasy time is over…the reality is that we’re totally screwed!

  5. 2009 May 31 6:48 am
    [5]
    drdog09 permalink

    There is a scenario that most don’t consider — KA DOES go bankrupt AND the Feds DON’T bail them out. Why? If the Feds do that for KA there are about 10 other States right behind them with varying deficits that will have their hands out.

    The Tax Cheat might advise against it for it could represent another $1T on the budget. Tax receipts are already down below what people expected already.

    Remember Obammy has said that ‘we are already out of money’.

  6. 2009 May 31 7:01 am
    [6]
    justrand permalink

    dr.dog: “KA DOES go bankrupt AND the Feds DON’T bail them out”

    Then, in your scenario, Kalifornia comes to its senses and:
    – ratchets back the welfare State
    – enforces its Southern Border by simply refusing to pay for the education and medical care of EVERYONE who sneaks across it
    – pulls back the HUNDREDS of millions of dollars devoted to saving mythical “endangered” creatures
    – Green-Lights simply turning back ON the existing oil wells off the coast…and thus generating billions of dollars!

    That about it?

    dr.dog…you are one funny lizard!! 🙂

  7. 2009 May 31 7:09 am
    [7]
    justrand permalink

    IP727 posted this link on the “Zimbabwe Rules” thread…but the philosophy embodied is EXACTLY what is necessary to save Kalifornia…and the U.S.A.

    THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY

    thx for bringing this to us, IP.

  8. 2009 May 31 7:33 am
    [8]
    justrand permalink

    the future of Kalifornia?? I do LOVE a good metaphor. This scene from “The Towering Inferno” provides it. At the 2 minute mark of this clip Richard Chamberlain and his ilk provide that metaphor!! (but watch the 2 minute set-up 🙂 )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhnMpvTpHag&feature=player_embedded

    You’ll know when we’re about to go completely under…the “Richard Chamberlains” will rush the escape routes…disastrously!

  9. 2009 May 31 8:26 am
    [9]
    brucefdb permalink

    The cuts to the programs for the poor are designed to get everyone to sign on to the next proposed tax hikes. You will note we aren’t eliminating any useless bureaucracy. Coming soon: a proposal to eliminate the 2/3 majority to pass tax increases, a repeal of Proposition 13…..the real end game target. That will get everyone out of the state except the elites and their slaves.

  10. 2009 May 31 8:36 am
    [10]
    justrand permalink

    brucefdb: “Coming soon: a proposal to eliminate the 2/3 majority to pass tax increases, a repeal of Proposition 13″

    if either of those come to pass this State is indeed TOAST! And me and Mrs. Justrand will move elsewhere…most likely just across the border to Nevada. That’ll be our “home of record”…where we work will be another story! 🙂

  11. 2009 May 31 8:54 am
    [11]
    phineas gage permalink

    In the Dustbowl of the 1930’s, ‘Okies’ made their way west to California in desperation to escape intolerable conditions.

    In the 2000’s, ‘Calies’ make their way east in desperation to escape intolerable conditions.

    Where is John Steinbeck when you need him?

  12. 2009 May 31 9:01 am
    [12]
    janzam permalink

    The mantra for CA is that “it always leads the way,” showing the other states new directions to set their GPA’s. Perhaps, this time we will lead the way, through cuts, on how to trim government in a way that it will not kill the patient in the process.

    The most accurate passage of bc3b’s thread was:
    “Government doesn’t provide services to rich people,” Mike Genest, the state’s finance director, said on a conference call with reporters on Friday. “It doesn’t even really provide services to the middle class.”

    The rich and middle class usually provide for themselves. Knowing and practicing for yourself does wonders for one’s motivation and self-reliance.

    There is a smaller tier of people who really do need governmental assistance. But, I think the majority of people who depend on government have done so because govt reaches out to them constantly, almost throwing services at them.

    I remember a radio spot running last year, urging people to “get food stamps,” because they were available. Free school breakfast and lunch programs have been plentiful, and given to students without any proof of need. If you look at the obesity of the young in this country, especially in the poor, lacking food is not one of their problems!

    Our whole system is calibrated wrong. Maybe having some fiscal restraint placed on people will reinvigorate their own sense of direction and taking care of their own needs.

  13. 2009 May 31 9:06 am
    [13]
    janzam permalink

    Phineas’s post above reminds me of yellow signs, posted on Interstate 5, as we were traveling south:

    Congress creates dustbowls

  14. 2009 May 31 9:06 am
    [14]
    aureliusx permalink

    Come on, there’s nowhere to go to. Let’s end this fantasy of “move elsewhere”, it hurts us because it discourages fighting in the here and now.

    First, there is no other country to go to that is more free.

    Second, where would californians go within the US? Idaho? You think you’ll be safe from taxes and regulation there? That’s like the last Neanderthals hiding out in some isolated cave on a barren coast. Yes you can hide there. Meanwhile the actual world moves on, your enemies expand, multiply, entrench themselves. Pretty soon your cave doesn’t matter any more, and whenever your enemy does notice you will be swatted like a fly without more than a moment’s thought.

    There is no moving. There is only stay and fight. And stop spending and reduce your taxability as much as possible.

  15. 2009 May 31 9:08 am
    [15]
    phineas gage permalink

    The system does not need to be ‘trimmed’ in California. Things are way beyond that.

    The solution is simple and everyone knows what it is. Cut taxes, defund the massive bureaucracy, and deny services to illegals.

    That is easily done and would turn the state around virtually overnight. None of these things in fact will happen and the state will crash and burn. As will the entire country, soon enough.

    After all, as you point out, ‘The mantra for CA is that “it always leads the way’

  16. 2009 May 31 9:10 am
    [16]
    phineas gage permalink

    ‘Second, where would californians go within the US? Idaho? You think you’ll be safe from taxes and regulation there? That’s like the last Neanderthals hiding out in some isolated cave on a barren coast. Yes you can hide there. Meanwhile the actual world moves on, your enemies expand, multiply, entrench themselves. Pretty soon your cave doesn’t matter any more, and whenever your enemy does notice you will be swatted like a fly without more than a moment’s thought.’

    So it is better to kneel and submit to tyranny? Almost any place in this nation is better than California right now for people and capital. And to those places it will flow.

    Your understanding of human behavior rivals a liberal.

  17. 2009 May 31 9:11 am
    [17]
    phineas gage permalink

    The American population needs to sort themselves out between the states on the basis of political philosophy, allowing a separation to occur.

  18. 2009 May 31 9:13 am
    [18]
    justrand permalink

    janzam: “Maybe having some fiscal restraint placed on people will reinvigorate their own sense of direction and taking care of their own needs.

    Actually, people will “take care of their own needs” when someone STOPS taking care of them for them! The potential for a massive breakdown of society will be there when the State finally has to say:
    “No mas!”

    Fasten your seatbelts, put your tray tables in the upright and locked position…and assume crash positions!

  19. 2009 May 31 9:13 am
    [19]
    phineas gage permalink

    Once the boundaries are clear, the movement will occur rapidly. There are more than enough conservatives in the country to populate and control a number of contiguous states, ensuring that liberalism cannot take root. United we will stand, divided we will fall.

  20. 2009 May 31 9:15 am
    [20]
    aureliusx permalink

    No the point is you have to fight on a larger scale, not kneel and submit.

    you think capital can just flow? Obama has proven that it can’t. Who will pay the 11 trillion debt? the solvent states or the insolvent ones?

  21. 2009 May 31 9:15 am
    [21]
    justrand permalink

    phineas gage: “The American population needs to sort themselves out between the states on the basis of political philosophy, allowing a separation to occur.

    Exactly!

  22. 2009 May 31 9:16 am
    [22]
    janzam permalink

    Aureliusx

    I agree. If you go somewhere else, the mess you left behind will follow.

    Besides, where people live are their “homes.” I love CA, was born here and other states, except for their fiscal policies, just don’t appeal to me. I’ve always lived near the ocean, wouldn’t know what to do if I couldn’t be near enough to it to smell the kelp, see the sun go down over the watery horizon, or walk along the beach.

    Maybe it’s an “iodine addiction,” but I am hoping we can readjust our economic values here, so there will be more people with oars in the water pulling for themselves, rather than what we have now.

    It is the entitlement programs that have exponentially grown here that has put us on the current life supports. And it is these same programs that have to be cut back.

  23. 2009 May 31 9:19 am
    [23]
    drdog09 permalink

    Then, in your scenario, Kalifornia comes to its senses and: — JR

    Hmmm. If that is what happens it would be a good thing.

  24. 2009 May 31 9:20 am
    [24]
    janzam permalink

    I wasn’t going to touch on the illegal issue, but PG addressed it briefly, and he is right.

    The ones who have leeched off the system have been a big problem, weakening our infrastructure, especially schools and medical services.

  25. 2009 May 31 9:20 am
    [25]
    justrand permalink

    aureliusx: “Who will pay the 11 trillion debt? the solvent states or the insolvent ones?”

    I suggest the New England States + New York + California + Illinois + New Jersey. 🙂 (but that’s just me)

    The new Free States Of America shouldn’t be burdened by the holdover bullshit from the Union of Socialist States of Amerika

  26. 2009 May 31 9:21 am
    [26]
    phineas gage permalink

    ‘And it is these same programs that have to be cut back.’

    But they will never be cut back. On what planet do you reside?

  27. 2009 May 31 9:23 am
    [27]
    phineas gage permalink

    Those who stay in California are fools.

    Before we make a stand as suggested by aurelius, we have to arrange the groundwork and terrain in our favor, to use a military analogy.

    That will never happen in California.

    We need to choose where we will fight. And we need to choose wisely.

  28. 2009 May 31 9:26 am
    [28]
    justrand permalink

    phineas gage, the Kalifornia State Legislature’s “solution” is almost certainly going to be to squeeze HARDER on the remaining “turnips”…looking for blood AND money. They’ll get neither!

    At least when we flee Kalifornia we won’t have to part the Red Sea (except, of course, the sea of Red Ink!)

  29. 2009 May 31 9:34 am
    [29]
    janzam permalink

    You guys who are working on the worse-case-scenario theory, including “fleeing the state,” may be right. But, between now and if that time should ever come, there are other more measured options to be implemented and applied.

    If you live in another state, it is far easier to kiss CA off than if you are a resident here who already has deep roots planted.

  30. 2009 May 31 9:36 am
    [30]
    booshkindoggin permalink

    I’m not sure we will be able to predict the consequences of suicidal tax & spend policies colliding with DOA economy. In Collyfornia many will/already have left the state and there is even some evidence that illegal immigration has slowed to due the lack of employment. Those who don’t want to leave will find creative ways to survive, probably including a massive increase in the underground economy. Early in my career (Nixon admin) I worked as an IRS auditor and the inside word, at least at that time was that if even 3% of citizens flat refused to file tax returns, the system would collapse. Feds won’t like that if Calif leads the way in a tax revolt.

  31. 2009 May 31 9:36 am
    [31]
    phineas gage permalink

    ‘there are other more measured options to be implemented and applied. ‘

    I would love to know what they are.

    Why don’t you list some of them?

  32. 2009 May 31 9:37 am
    [32]
    drdog09 permalink

    aureliusx

    First, there is no other country to go to that is more free.
    ——-

    I believed that up till about 10 years ago. Now a days I believe that is not the case. —

    – No smoking laws of various levels of intrusion depending on State.
    – Transfat laws in NY.
    – Seat belt laws.
    – CCW laws. Why should you have to have a CCW permit when the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution defines the ‘…right to bear arms.’ It does not say a specific time/place.
    – Speech codes on college campuses.

    The list is long.

    I spent time in several countries over the years. A long time in Russia, the ‘land of no freedom’. Yet guess what, its a country of the Old Wild West. Pollution controls? What’s that? Building permits? What is a building permit? Alcohol % content? The only time that is an issue is when the factory is watering the booze. Business? You bring in a connected Pol and deliver the %. The rest of the BS disappears. Nobody gives a damn what you are doing there for business purposes. Nobody gives a hoot what you eat, wear, or weigh or the KJoules of energy you use as long as you can pay for it.

    No, the US has slipped far down the slope from what we might call ‘free’.

  33. 2009 May 31 9:51 am
    [33]
    Brandon permalink

    I agree 100% with smoking bans in public places. What gives you the right to endanger my health?

  34. 2009 May 31 10:01 am
    [34]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    Smoking in public endangers no one’s health, and the nannystaters need to be fired. What we need in this country is a massive 100 million strong civil disobedience corp, smoking and bearing arms as they wish, and driving their cars where and as fast as they want, and drilling for oil without permits, and witholding tax.

    The Feds can put 2-4 million in jail, but they can’t put 100 million in jail. Someone has to call their bluff.

  35. 2009 May 31 10:03 am
    [35]
    Brandon permalink

    Oh so second-hand smoke is a giant myth? Thanks for clearing that up. I guess all of those studies must be flawed.

  36. 2009 May 31 10:05 am
    [36]
    Brandon permalink

    “Secondhand smoke causes almost 50,000 deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year, including approximately 3,400 from lung cancer and 22,700-69,600 from heart disease.”

    Yeah, no harm. Give me a break.

    http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.35422/#five

  37. 2009 May 31 10:08 am
    [37]
    aureliusx permalink

    Dr dog, all you say about Russia is true. Also Putin will have you killed in a heartbeat for saying something he doesn’t like, and nobody will care.

    Next.

  38. 2009 May 31 10:10 am
    [38]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    yeah, you’re gonna die because some guy is walking past your house with a cigarette in his hand.

    Sissy. nations. die.

  39. 2009 May 31 10:10 am
    [39]
    janzam permalink

    Measured options would be those individually applied.

    Each person is responsible for their own well-being. They can pull back on expenditures, barter, live a more self-sufficient lifestyle, home school.

    I have found that with more govt. intrusion there are ways to extricate yourself from the tyranny they are always trying to impose on you.

    Obviously if the social order breaks down entirely, then we are looking at a dog-eat-dog situation then the options become more scarce. However, I have never lived through such an era. So, with any reasonable accuracy I can’t give more than an intellectualized hypothesis, as can anyone else here who hasn’t lived under revolutionary times.

  40. 2009 May 31 10:11 am
    [40]
    Brandon permalink

    “yeah, you’re gonna die because some guy is walking past your house with a cigarette in his hand. ”

    That’s not what I meant. I was referring to restaurants, stores, etc.

  41. 2009 May 31 10:11 am
    [41]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    I think the USA should pass a law requiring all citizens to wear skirts, since there is obviously not one non-metrosexual male left in the country.

  42. 2009 May 31 10:12 am
    [42]
    aureliusx permalink

    OK, this let’s consider this contiguous “free state” concept a minute.

    So it would start with a loose grouping of freedom-loving states. Would it be like a trade grouping? But congress by the constitution regulates all interstate commerce. It would be shot down immediately.

    How else would these states distinguish themselves? Joint military exercises? Forget about it.

    No, we win at the national level or all is lost.

  43. 2009 May 31 10:13 am
    [43]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    That’s not what I meant. I was referring to restaurants, stores, etc.

    those are privately owned businesses and owners should decide about smoking, and the local citizens can either patronize or not, based on whether they care about stupid ridiculous second-hand smoke or not.

  44. 2009 May 31 10:15 am
    [44]
    Brandon permalink

    “stupid ridiculous second-hand smoke”

    Yeah, the stupid ridiculous kills 50,000 Americans a year. That is 16 9/11’s a year, but it is “stupid ridiculous”.

  45. 2009 May 31 10:15 am
    [45]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    Way too much government owned property in the US, and WAAAY too much government control over private property in the US.

  46. 2009 May 31 10:16 am
    [46]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    It doesn’t kill 50k Americans per year, that is anti-smoking hysteria.

    for the record, I don’t smoke, no-one in my family smokes, and I think it’s a dirty habit.

    But this is supposed to be a free country, with private property rights.

  47. 2009 May 31 10:20 am
    [47]
    janzam permalink

    Brandon is right about cigarettes, but I don’t necessarily agree with “outlawing” them, as it is just another freedom of choice that is imposed on people.

    But, I think “taxing” cigarettes to the hilt, charging more for health insurance are two natural types of consequences for choosing to smoke.

    I also think segregating smokers in public places is OK. Smokers are the ones changing the public atmosphere creating a toxic environment, especially to those afflicted with pulmonary and smoke sensitivity issues.

    All of these “measures” would be deterrants to some for smoking, without actually passing laws that said you couldn’t smoke.

  48. 2009 May 31 10:22 am
    [48]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    No, we win at the national level or all is lost.

    Then all is lost, I am afraid. I’m becoming a secessionist as a result. Simply repudiate and ignore the commerce clause since it was mis-interpreted anyway.

  49. 2009 May 31 10:23 am
    [49]
    justrand permalink

    brandon, I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke…and REFUSE to eat in an establishment that permits smoking! Holy Sh*t…I just made a personal choice that saved me from the effects of “2nd-Hand Smoke”.

    Hmmm…I live within my means…Holy Sh*t…I’m making personal choices that save me from needing to grovel before the Government for a handout!

    get it? 🙂

  50. 2009 May 31 10:25 am
    [50]
    bc3b permalink

    Yahoo wrote:

    “Smoking in public endangers no one’s health, and the nannystaters need to be fired. What we need in this country is a massive 100 million strong civil disobedience corp, smoking and bearing arms as they wish, and driving their cars where and as fast as they want, and drilling for oil without permits, and witholding tax.”

    This is one area in which you and I disagree. I am a non-smoker (not militant about it, but a non-smoker). If my family is eating out in a reasaurant, why should we be forced to inhale smoke from people at surrounding tables? If people want to endanger their health by smoking (and there’s no way you can logically claim that smoking is anything but healthy), it’s their business, but when their habit intrudes on my life, I care.

  51. 2009 May 31 10:25 am
    [51]
    janzam permalink

    Good way to put it Justrand. Were you ever a teacher?

  52. 2009 May 31 10:30 am
    [52]
    justrand permalink

    nope, janzam…but it was my lifelong dream to be one. Life had other plans for me.

  53. 2009 May 31 10:39 am
    [53]
    aureliusx permalink

    let’s get past the smoking thing for a minute and look at yahoo’s larger meaning:

    “What we need in this country is a massive 100 million strong civil disobedience corp, smoking and bearing arms as they wish, and driving their cars where and as fast as they want, and drilling for oil without permits, and witholding tax. The Feds can put 2-4 million in jail, but they can’t put 100 million in jail. Someone has to call their bluff.”

    this is the “distributed” alternative to secession plan. us 30% deadenders simply refuse in one way or another, and trigger a national crisis. Not secession, necessarily, but civil disobedience.

    Clarifying there are perspectives out there that are common, important, dearly held, and more consistent with human freedom than nannystate liberalism.

    But we can;t just all run around breaking laws whenever we want. Not good PR. What would be the best “Rosa Parks”-type theme to unify around initially.

    Hint– not smoking.

    Would it be “not sending our tax money to China”– a tax revolt? tough to get families to sign on to that.

    would it be “don’t force your selective ideas on diversity and empathy down our throats, when we know you mean diversity only for your approved races, and empathy only for your approved causes”? Maybe… so what exactly would we do?

  54. 2009 May 31 10:39 am
    [54]
    janzam permalink

    I think you might have missed “a calling,” Justrand!

    In your posts you state a position, support it with evidence or surround it with facts, then open it up for another to use their own “critical thinking” on what you just presented.

    A probative way to explain and teach another.

  55. 2009 May 31 10:44 am
    [55]

    That’s not what I meant. I was referring to restaurants, stores, etc.

    brandon

    What about PRIVATELY OWNED BARS? If you don’t like smoke, don’t go there, it is none of big brothers business.

  56. 2009 May 31 10:51 am
    [56]
    janzam permalink

    Aurelius — In the early stages of trying to thwart government power, a “deadenders” approach, a sizable organized civil disobedience might be too overpowering for a government to do anything else but take notice and back down.

    But, if govt. gets too strong, employs too many people, turns the military into it’s own tool to quell civil unrest, than the above will only evolve the government from a stern overseer of the people to a dictator or tyrant.

    I also don’t see a large number of people signing onto boycotting, let’s say China, as people are just not civicly-minded enough these days to sacrifice themselves for a larger purpose.

    In way, just brainstorming this, it will have to take something pretty cataclysmic, catching enough people’s attention, where they will drop old habits and take on new ones in order to just survive and have this country regain it’s footing.

  57. 2009 May 31 10:58 am
    [57]
    JustMary permalink

    those are privately owned businesses and owners should decide about smoking, and the local citizens can either patronize or not, based on whether they care about stupid ridiculous second-hand smoke or not.

    I would absolutely refuse to patronize a restaurant that allowed smoking. The issue takes care of itself if you leave it to the establishment to decide whether or not to allow it.

  58. 2009 May 31 10:59 am
    [58]
    aureliusx permalink

    Jan– and the cataclysm will happen, make no mistake, via outside forces. We have to be ready for it.

    Is that the only way to regain liberty– through catastrophe? Seems to be the case.

    Was hoping to spare my children catastrophe. But you can’t have everything.

  59. 2009 May 31 11:00 am
    [59]
    JustMary permalink

    What about PRIVATELY OWNED BARS? If you don’t like smoke, don’t go there, it is none of big brothers business.

    Indeed, the issue would resolve itself.

  60. 2009 May 31 11:05 am
    [60]
    janzam permalink

    Is that the only way to regain liberty– through catastrophe? Seems to be the case. Aurelius

    Historically that seems to be the template for stabilization —> destablilize to re-stabilize.

    People don’t seem to learn their lessons well, do they?

  61. 2009 May 31 11:05 am
    [61]
    Brandon permalink

    Quick question JustMary, how do you get it to quote like that?

  62. 2009 May 31 11:07 am
    [62]
    justrand permalink

    fires need 3 things: Fuel, Oxygen and Heat

    Deprive them of any of the 3 and they die out. The “fire” that Obama and his misbegotten ilk have loosed upon America is no different.

    The Statist are providing the “heat”. Their passion for a “new Amerika” cannot be reasoned with.

    The “fuel” is the amassed wealth and natural resources of this once great nation. These are being mortaged at an outrageous pace, and no one seems to care. The deficit will hit $2 TRILLION in this year alone!

    But the “oxygen” is the taxes that we all pay, including for the sales taxes we pay for what we buy. Moving to States without Sales and/or Income taxes, doing more bartering for goods, reducting our purchasing and even cutting back on the money we earn will depreive this fire of the “oxygen” it needs. Ip727 suggested this approach a few weeks ago…it is the last step BEFORE things collapse, and the last chance to PREVENT the collapse.

    booshkindoggin indicated earlier what a thin margin of “resistance” would do to the Jenga tower of our government. Considering that tax revenues are already down 34% for 2009, I think it has already begun.

  63. 2009 May 31 11:09 am
    [63]
    JustMary permalink

    Put these- <> on either side of the word blockquote in the front, and on the other side of the word blockquote at the end of whatever you want quoted.

  64. 2009 May 31 11:09 am
    [64]

    The anti secondary smoke fraud

  65. 2009 May 31 11:10 am
    [65]
    JustMary permalink

    Oops….it didn’t like code in there, use the same <> but with a / before the word blockquote at the end.

  66. 2009 May 31 11:11 am
    [66]

    Mary~~Don’t you need a /blockquote on the end???

  67. 2009 May 31 11:21 am
    [67]
    janzam permalink

    I look at our trip to N. CA as a good example of people pulling back and renegotiating.

    Business spaces are going well below previously leased amounts. For instance, a restaurant site rented for $5-6,000 a month now is being given offers of $2,500. It’s not good for the owner, but is worse for the state because of the shortfalls in revenue, as noted by that 34% number quoted.

    While everyone’s business, from food, clothing, tree and site clearing, is shrinking — the underground market in Mendocino county is soaring —> more pot farms, people with legal permits for growing, than anytime before. This is a non-taxable agricultural boon, where people are making a sustainable living and the govt is getting zero(so far). People are also bartering home-grown food, services for other essentials.

    The public is as versatile as water, in that if there is a crevice anywhere, they will find a way to circumvent imposed circumstances and see their way to survive.

  68. 2009 May 31 11:23 am
    [68]
    janzam permalink

    Also “cash” purchases are the thing now to get around paying tax and reportable income.

  69. 2009 May 31 11:39 am
    [69]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    second hand smoke hysteria is like global warming hysteria. Solid Bullcrap.

  70. 2009 May 31 1:53 pm
    [70]
    Colorado KnightOwl permalink

    second hand smoke hysteria is like global warming hysteria. Solid Bullcrap. – RWY

    All the literature on lung cancer says that 60% of all the people get lung cancer have never smoked at all….so clearly that is not the main cause….and with 2nd hand smoke the effect is even less.

    Smog and genetics are more likely the culprits….

  71. 2009 May 31 2:00 pm
    [71]
    brucefdb permalink

    Brandon, a study, to be valid, must be at least blind, and preferrably double blind. There are no such studies that show second hand smoke to be harmful. In fact, the most exhaustive study, done by the World Health Organizanition, actually showed that some second hand smoke actually seemed to prevent certain types of cancers. Now is second hand smoke stinky and irritating to some, yes. My advice to you is to stay away from places that allow smoking if you are so inclined and leave us more hardy types the freedom we deserve.

    The leftist press is afloat with phony studies of smoking, global warming and other pet causes that are as useless as the paper they are printed on. It has been shown that when researchers know what they are being asked to prove they can prove a falsehood 70% of the time.

  72. 2009 May 31 3:49 pm
    [72]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    Bruce, .357 mag. ammo is available at Georgia-Arms.com.

  73. 2009 May 31 4:53 pm
    [73]
    brucefdb permalink

    Thanks Yahoo.

  74. 2009 May 31 6:37 pm
    [74]
    drdog09 permalink

    Dr dog, all you say about Russia is true. Also Putin will have you killed in a heartbeat for saying something he doesn’t like, and nobody will care.

    Next.

    Juxtaposed against —

    – Ramos and Campian.
    – The cop who killed his 3rd and 4th wife in Oh. (can’t remember his name at the moment.)
    – Ask Kathryn Johnston of Atlanta. You know, the grandmother who was shot to death 39 times for a trumped up raid. Not a single cop has been brought to justice yet.

    Sorry, I don’t have to worry about Putin. We have slimes in this country many of them wearing a badge.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.