We Are The Rabble We’ve Been Waiting For!

2009 September 7
by INC

Via Hot Air and Instapundit, from Marta Mossburg at the Washington Examiner:

The group collectively lamented that the Right discovered Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals.” “It’s kind of scary! They have learned all of the tricks,” said Sue Esty, the assistant director of American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees Maryland.

dont-tread-300

As David Horowitz said to Glenn Beck:

“In my view we should take a page out of Alinsky’s book, Rules For Radicals. And he said what you do is you go outside the experience of your opponent and you disorient them and you make them react in a way that reveals who they are.

The Left hasn’t realized it yet, but we come from a long line of Rabble, established circa 1776! *

__________

* For Rabble reference read through the Semper Fidelis thread!  😀
H/T: Hot Air, Instapundit, Glenn Beck/FOX News.

70 Responses leave one →
  1. 2009 September 7 5:44 am
    [1]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    heh.

  2. 2009 September 7 6:02 am
    [2]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    5/5 on snark
    5/5 in unintended irony
    5/5 on lefty-taunting

    All good.

    We have to keep this in perspective. The left is still in control of all levers of power. The most we can hope for is taking back the house in 2010, but much damage can be done by then.

    We’ll just keep fighting…

  3. 2009 September 7 6:15 am
    [3]
    justrand permalink

    I gotta get a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag for the cabin!

    We, the rabble, have had a couple good rounds…but the fight is far from over and our opponents still have folding chairs they haven’t hit us over the head with yet. Naturally the “referee” (aka: the media) never seems to see them wielding those chairs.

    So stay frosty, folks.

  4. 2009 September 7 6:16 am
    [4]
    judyt2009 permalink

    INC you amaze me… I another excellent post… I sense that your dedication and skill along with a extremely prepared background… you are going to serve a pivotal point in this battle to save America. GOD bless you.

    PS .. you just need to create a must read list to educate the rest of us and those you are now seeking the light…

    Maybe we need a set of cliff notes for these books…

  5. 2009 September 7 6:21 am
    [5]
    judyt2009 permalink

    FYI — I received a fundraising call from Minority Leader Boehner on Saturday. There was the taped message from Boehner saying the RNCC is targeting 70+ seats to take the gavel out of Pelosi’s hands.

    After the message the girl came back on the phone and asked did I want to take the gavel out of Pelosi’s hands… my response was “Yes, and then beat her to death with it”… okay so the Secret Service will now knock on my door as making a threat against Pelosi. I also gave a contribution. I know I swore I was only going to give directly to conservatives and not assist any RINOS … but I was an easy touch on Saturday.

    Hyperbole… for you lurking liberals … look it up.

  6. 2009 September 7 6:25 am
    [6]
    judyt2009 permalink

    People are alive…and using the internet… Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity have thousands if not millions doing research for them… to be sure it makes their producers jobs easier and harder.

    But I am optimistic…for one reason. We now have an example for those moderate idiots who voted for Obama because they didn’t see a difference and just gobbled up the MSM story. There is a difference between politicians.. and you can’t just go to sleep on this issue.

    How many people out there are saying “I never paided attention to politics in the past… but now I am. “

  7. 2009 September 7 6:33 am
    [7]
    judyt2009 permalink

    A friend was dealing with someone who drank the kool-aid. She said she saw nothing wrong with the DEd curriculum guides sent out to accompany Obama’s address to the school children. So my friend said… “I don’t want to argue with you.. I just want you to do one thing.. read this again but substitute the name Bush whereever the name Obama appears and then tell me if that is okay”. At least the kool-aid drinker was honest and said…NO. Drip, drip, drip… we will get them back…

  8. 2009 September 7 6:39 am
    [8]
    justrand permalink

    judyt2009, our side of the political divide tends to bring reasoning and research. The Left tends to bring fantasy and falsehoods. It’s why we win in direct engagements…and why they avoid those engagements.

    and I echo your kudos to INC…it is another excellent post! So thx INC, and thx to all our excellent contributors!! Ya’ll rock!! 🙂

  9. 2009 September 7 6:53 am
    [9]
    justrand permalink

    And this “rabble” just forced a very BAD man, Van Jones, out of a position of HUGE influence!! Yet, as Andrew Breitbart commented this morning:
    For most people in this country, the resignation was the first they had heard of Van Jones. For this sin of journalistic omission, there’s institutional media blame.”

    The media is now claiming that he had “no budget, and no real power”, and thus the focus on him was RACIALLY motiviated!! Who would have seen THAT coming, eh?

  10. 2009 September 7 7:02 am
    [10]
    drdog09 permalink

    “Do you want to play a game?…”

    tactics know no boundaries. Anyone can apply them so long as know them. In that vein lets turn learning them in to a board game shall we?

    Rules:
    (Long Version)
    * Pick a current event.
    * Identify the participants, ACORN, Teas, Business, etc.
    * Each player should select a participant. They score the participant moves in the event.
    * Identify the Alinsky rules below being applied for or against the participants.
    * Player announces their scoring to the other players. If the player misses a rule and majority agree its -1 point. However if the player who challenges does not get a majority its -1 point for them. Player with the highest number of points (max 12) wins.

    (Short version)
    * Pick the target of the rules.
    * Each player identifies and scores accordingly.
    * Apply the balance of the long version scoring above.
    ——————————————————————————–

    RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (for)
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (against)
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

    RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

    Used: Yes ___ No ___
    Applicable: Yes ___ No ___
    Effective: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    Comment: ______________________________________
    ______________________________________________

  11. 2009 September 7 7:04 am
    [11]
    judyt2009 permalink

    Just ask one question… was Van Jones drawing a salary? Did he have an office? A budget? Were any taxpayer dollars being spent on this man? If yes, then in the mind of most people that would be enough. Very few people can conceptualize a trillion dollars, a billion, or even a million.. but tell them that Van Jones was drawing an SES salary of around $177,000 plus all the government benefits that increase that to $250,000 or so … plus all his travel expenses and healthy per diem. Well then the dollars become real to the majority of Americans… and they can be just as outraged that this racist communist was getting $1o0,000 let alone $1,000,000,000.

  12. 2009 September 7 7:05 am
    [12]
    judyt2009 permalink

    Oh — and if the czars have no real power… then why do we need them? Or is this just the give Zero’s friends a job on the taxpayer dime….

  13. 2009 September 7 7:06 am
    [13]
    justrand permalink

    I like the board game approach! you/we/someone should market it! just the existence of a board game based on Alinsky’s “Rules” would awaken some to the tactics being used against them! And would alert “the rabble” on how to more effectively “play the game”!!!

    thx, drdog!

  14. 2009 September 7 7:14 am
    [14]
    drdog09 permalink

    judyt2009, our side of the political divide tends to bring reasoning and research. The Left tends to bring fantasy and falsehoods. It’s why we win in direct engagements…and why they avoid those engagements. — JR

    A true statement up to ‘…fantasy and falsehoods.’ Its neither of those, its emotion they play with.

    * The Wellstone and Kennedy burials were a sympathy play. They were so crass to even say ‘pass it in Kennedy’s memory.’
    * They tend to look for a waif to personalize their need to pass legislation to alleviate the suffering.
    * Even Obama’s election was a play on emotion. Hope is a very powerful one.

    The best songs, plays, movies are so because they pull at our emotions at their finest. Emotion is devoid of reason. Emotion used for the enjoyment itself has no foul. Emotion used in place of reason can be deadly. But because emotion usually operates in lieu of reason is why the Left uses it to advance their cause.

  15. 2009 September 7 7:17 am
    [15]
    judyt2009 permalink

    The healthcare debate… yes we need reform… health insurance reform…

    (1) frivious law suits are the biggest compenent of increased health care costs… any reform of health care must include tort reform to rein in the PI lawyers. (everyone hates lawyers)
    (2) why do we have to change a system that 95% of the people are happy with to cover 5% — or why change a system that works for 300 million to cover 5 million… lets just deal with that 5 million.
    (3) health insurance needs to be modified so people can buy the coverage they want and not pay for the coverage they don’t… as a 50+ year old woman why should I have to pay for maternity coverage. Why pay for coverage for allergies and flu .. when you just want covered for broken bones and cancer?

  16. 2009 September 7 7:18 am
    [16]
    bc3b permalink

    Obama at -13 in Ras this morning. 41 Strongly unfavorable/28 strongly favorable; 48 favorable/51 unfavorable overall

  17. 2009 September 7 7:20 am
    [17]
    justrand permalink

    judyt2009: “Just ask one question…”

    Of course, you then proceeded to ask several! 🙂 But they were and are excellent questions!!

    The media is, as always, trying to have it both ways on this. The only way they can claim the pressure on him was RACIALLY motivated, is to assert there was no other reason to pressure him! So they have to downplay any and all influence and power he DID have. But if he had NO power or influence…why the hell were we paying him?? (and yes, he did have a staff and budget).

    p.s. the NY Times has STILL not printed any of the outrageous and hateful things this man said!!

  18. 2009 September 7 7:21 am
    [18]
    bc3b permalink

    drdog09 –

    Liberals are lamenting that some conservatives (I won’t say Republicans) have become very successful at utilizing Alinsky’s tactics (as the Van Jones resignation illustrates).

  19. 2009 September 7 7:24 am
    [19]
    brucefdb permalink

  20. 2009 September 7 7:25 am
    [20]
    justrand permalink

    agred, drdog…except that the “emotions” often derive from “fantasy”! 🙂 That’s why nearly 100% of the time movie villians are Republicans where Party affiliation is mentioned at all.

    I give you Richard Dreyfuss’ portrayal of a “Republican” in “The American President”. A love story, with a little comedy, and frankly fun to watch I’m sorry to say. But the message was very clear: Republicans are EVIL! Dreyfuss did everything but bite the head off a baby bunny rabbit…and THAT was probably a “deleted scene”!

  21. 2009 September 7 7:29 am
    [21]
    drdog09 permalink

    judyt,

    (3) is a stickler. I would agree if the childrearing years are over then why should you? The problem is how insurance operates. The idea of course is shared risk of all participants. The irony being that the insurance will get cheapest once a certain pool size is reached. Maternity would probably be considered common enough to be available in any pool.

    The best I might suggest is that some rules be changed so that insurance companies could pool their pools to make each category of service as cheap as possible. The govt would have to relax some antitrust rules to get them there tho.

  22. 2009 September 7 7:30 am
    [22]
    justrand permalink

    brucefdb, I hadn’t seen her reaction…thx for posting it! And good for her! Calling the A/P a pack of shameless whores is not fair to “shameless whores”.

    And the A/P’s contention that they released the photo “only after careful deliberation” just added salt to the wound! What a load of total horsecrap!

  23. 2009 September 7 7:33 am
    [23]
    fedupartist permalink

    Anyone know if Beck is on vacation today?

  24. 2009 September 7 7:34 am
    [24]
    drdog09 permalink

    JR, could be! 🙂 I remember the movie by the way. My take is the fantasy comes in believing the emotion is factual where it rarely is. That’s why its useful, too many people can’t separate the two when they can reflect on it.

  25. 2009 September 7 7:37 am
    [25]

    A/P engaged in careful deliberations

  26. 2009 September 7 7:41 am
    [26]
    bc3b permalink

    judyt2009 –

    Yes, Van Jones was drawing a salary, but I am not sure how much. On his website, Glenn Beck has information on all (31 I believe) czars with salaries (if known). Published salaries range from about $90k to $200k. Supposedly Paul Volker is working for free.

    http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/29391/?ck=1

  27. 2009 September 7 7:42 am
    [27]
    fedupartist permalink

    WAPO: Jones in charge of $80 BILLION.

    Ok, *was* in charge.

  28. 2009 September 7 7:43 am
    [28]
    justrand permalink

    thx IP727, for the excellent “candid photo” of the A/P “deliberating”! 🙂

  29. 2009 September 7 7:43 am
    [29]

    16. Thanks!

    The job numbers are sinking in.

    9.7%…and rising!

  30. 2009 September 7 7:43 am
    [30]
    Sharp2edgedsword permalink

    I believe the country is ripe for a 3rd party movement in 2012. Perot came close.

  31. 2009 September 7 7:45 am
    [31]
    bc3b permalink

    bruce –

    Yes, there already is a thread written on Sarah Palin’s Facebook comment. I believe it deserves it’s own thread (as links tend to get lost). It will be posted at 11 AM real people’s time (8 AM Peoples Republik of Kalifornia time). Don’t want to “step on” INC’s efforts.

    Besides, can you think of a better subject to discuss on a holiday than Sarah Palin?

  32. 2009 September 7 7:46 am
    [32]
    justrand permalink

    fedupartist…but, but, the White House statement says they didn’t vett him thoroughly because of the “relatively low level of Jones’s job“.

    I guess $80 BILLION is a “relatively low level” these days, huh?

  33. 2009 September 7 7:47 am
    [33]

    Perot came close.~~~sword

    Perot gave us 8 years of clinton.

  34. 2009 September 7 7:48 am
    [34]
    justrand permalink

    thx, bc3b. We here in the “People’s Republik of Kalifornia” appreciate you letting us sleep in! 👿

    Sleep is the ONLY thing they’re not taxing out here…yet!

  35. 2009 September 7 7:49 am
    [35]
    justrand permalink

    no 3rd Party talk yet. 2010 has to be the focus. And maybe not even after that. Better to take over the current Repub Party…which I do think is starting to happen.

  36. 2009 September 7 7:51 am
    [36]
    bc3b permalink

    $80 billion only represents $260 for every man, woman and child in the country. We’re talking about “walking around” change.

  37. 2009 September 7 7:54 am
    [37]
    mulletover permalink

    Looking up from their game of scrabble
    JR, JM and INC heard the left wing babble
    So Be John Galt was born
    and the radicals were shorn
    of their marxist by these rousers of rabble.

  38. 2009 September 7 7:57 am
    [38]
    drdog09 permalink

    32, Hmmm. I detect tongue in cheek. Of course we know the SS vetts everyone that walks thru the front gates or the services entrance. Eh?

    I would love to see one day where the WH press corps was replaced by bloggers and Gibbs had to give real answers.

  39. 2009 September 7 7:58 am
    [39]
    bc3b permalink

    ip727 –

    “Perot came close.~~~sword

    “Perot gave us 8 years of clinton.”

    At least Bill Clinton realized you could only push the voters so far. Obama is pushing a number of unpopular issues at the same time – ObamaCare, cap and trade, closing GITMO, etc.

    Obama is a dedicated Marxist; Clinton was just a Marxist who could easily be distracted by a chubby intern in a blue dress.

  40. 2009 September 7 8:05 am
    [40]
    drdog09 permalink

    If you want a successful third party you take a Presidential run off the table from the get go. You go after Senate and House seats. Till a third party can influence/block legislation don’t even think of the executive branch.

  41. 2009 September 7 8:05 am
    [41]

    MULLETOVER THE SKULKER AWOKE FROM HIS SLUMBER,
    UPON THE MOONBATS HE DID A NUMBER,
    LURKING IN THE SHALLOWS EVER ALERT,
    WAITING TO GIVE LIBERALS A NAP OF DIRT,
    UP SIDE THEIR HEADS WITH A STICK OF LUMBER.

  42. 2009 September 7 8:08 am
    [42]

    “Obama is a dedicated Marxist; Clinton was just a Marxist who could easily be distracted by a chubby intern in a blue dress”~~bc

    How quickly they grow up, just the other day monica was playing on her hands and knees on the oval office carpet, now she’s 40 plus.

  43. 2009 September 7 8:13 am
    [43]
    bc3b permalink

    My guess is that Beck is on vacation today. FNC showsa shut down after the Thursday shows and don’t open up again until Tuesday. Carlson Tucker’s yexybook special has been on at least 16 times this weekend.

    Ho-raldo’d show was much better with Ho-raldo.

  44. 2009 September 7 8:13 am
    [44]
    INC permalink

    I did this post last night and scheduled it to go up automatically this morning. I’m just now checking in–I’m glad y’all liked it!

    Judy, I love to write–I love words. I wish I could find a course that wasn’t taught by a Lefty to help hone my wordsmith ability. I worked as a typesetter on a school magazine and on their various publication needs, so I enjoy putting things together visually. I don’t know enough HTML tricks to always get things to look the way I’d like them to, but I try to play around with the spacing and how the words look on a page. The impact of the words–the content and the visual are important to me.

    You add to that my background. While I was not a Radical Son as Horowitz was, I went to high school and college with the 60s/70s radicals. I know these people. I also became a Christian in college in the midst of this uproar and I cut my teeth then in witnessing for my faith and giving my perspective in papers and in class discussion. At least at that time the liberals I had would still give me good grades even though I disagreed with them. There was still a vestige of honesty at that time of some liberals of allowing give and take and debate and listening to other points of view. I had a radical feminists prof in education who said I was one of the few people in the class who was thinking. I did actually like her and enjoy talking with her–she was not one of the sewer nasties you see today.

    I think Horowitz was born for this hour. This is his moment to help save our Republic. In a small way I can do my part. I realized some years ago that the prayer I’ve prayed for myself the most over the years has been asking for wisdom and discernment. I began doing this when I was in college as I was flooded with the books and ideas coming at me and have continued to do so. I have no problem pointing out the travesty of the moral self-image of the Left as Horowitz suggested. I fully agree with him that that in their political radicalism they seek redemption. Many are spiritually empty and are seeking hope, but in their pride they want to do it on their terms and believe they themselves in their ideology can change the world. They refuse to look at history to see the wretched and horrible consequences of the thinking to which they adhere and they are in denial about what they do to others.

    They can’t get back at me in a similar way because as a Christian I know I have been redeemed and it has not been through my own efforts. I know I am imperfect and flawed and don’t live up to my standards, let alone God’s standards. I know I am forgiven and fully accepted in Christ. That’s the protection against slander.

    This is also why I think Sarah Palin has been so effective. She has the moral clarity and understanding to realize what they are doing and to speak directly to it. She also has the fortitude and perseverance to endure. This again, is something Christians learn along the way. In the midst of the fire and flood of the circumstances of our lives God enables us to go on and teaches us His care. The slander against her and her family is surely painful, but when she stands against them, she knows she is forgiven and those fiery darts cannot deter her.

    The Alinsky rule of making others live up to their own standard just falls apart and will not work when they try to zing Christians with it, because we can say we already know that, but we’re forgiven and we go on. Humility and honesty before God are the best inner defense against their attacks.

    I think Horowitz is right on (to use a 60s term!) when he said:

    The only way to defeat the left — and I have failed in twenty years of arguing this to persuade conservatives — is to turn the table around and attack their moral self-image. Leftists are in fact the enemies and oppressors of women, children, gays, minorities and the poor, and conservatives should never confront them without reminding them of this fact.

    They have no defense against this because it is truth. They are guilty. It has been fascinating to me that Horowitz, who is an agnostic, recognizes the spiritual dimension to what is taking place in our country. I firmly believe this is not only a political war; it is a moral and spiritual war. That’s why, whether or not she is fit for national office, Sarah Palin upsets and angers the Left. He said this of Sarah Palin the other night:

    That’s what she did. That’s why they hate her. Because she’s very effective….And it shows you–they react, they squeal, they yell and suddenly the issue is in front of everybody. And that’s what you want to do.

    Others have their own place in the battle going on at this time, but David Horowitz and Sarah Palin echo my thinking, my heart and the place at which I fight.

  45. 2009 September 7 8:28 am
    [45]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    An excellent discussion, INC, and I think you are getting at the root of it.

    It’s all about a savior, with forgiveness and redemption baked into the smelly, perverse and non-delicious pie. The only problem is it’s a counterfeit savior they are trying to believe in.

    Funny, isn’t it, how the old story keeps on getting recycled, but in corrupt form, over and over. Someone is not as original a thinker as they suppose themselves to be.

    Aw.

  46. 2009 September 7 8:30 am
    [46]
    drdog09 permalink

  47. 2009 September 7 8:33 am
    [47]
    justrand permalink

    I see some renegade poetry above…EXCELLENT, mulletover and IP727…Excellent!!

  48. 2009 September 7 8:35 am
    [48]
    justrand permalink

    drdog but our Dear Leader doesn’t see them as “mistakes”. Think about it…FDR made those mistakes, and got elected FOUR TIMES!! Obama’s thinking that was a pretty sweeeet deal! 🙂

  49. 2009 September 7 8:36 am
    [49]
    judyt2009 permalink

    Inc… your prayers were answered, and again your writing is excellent. It might be out of print and right now the book is packed away in a box, but I have an excellent book on editing — Line by Line. When I come back from vacation I will look for it. Of course it is over 20 years old so the library and not the bookstore is where to find it.

  50. 2009 September 7 8:42 am
    [50]
    drdog09 permalink

    JR, very true indeed. But I think Obama miscalculates the persona he represents. He may think FDR, the country is coming to realize Hoover II. 😛

    The full text of the iea publication referenced in the uk piece is available as a download here. Good so far.

  51. 2009 September 7 8:46 am
    [51]
    mulletover permalink

    As a limerick-er, the mullet blew it
    IP comes along and says, “ah screw it”
    with a verse so quick
    He gives liberals a kick
    and the rest of us think, “how do he do it.”

  52. 2009 September 7 8:49 am
    [52]

    mullet you da greatest. 🙂

  53. 2009 September 7 8:51 am
    [53]
    judyt2009 permalink

    The reason why liberals advocate eliminating private charity and substituting government dependency is so that they don’t have to feel inadequate about their own lack of giving. Zero is big on the being your brothers keeper, but like all liberals he doesn’t walk that walk on an individual basis. He wants the government to have control/responsibility so that he can continue to give himself a pass on his individual shortcomings.

  54. 2009 September 7 8:55 am
    [54]
    INC permalink

    Thanks for the book suggestion, Judy.

    I am in and out today so I won’t always be able to respond quickly.

  55. 2009 September 7 8:58 am
    [55]
    justrand permalink

    we’re trying to figure out when next to do “Poetry Night”. This coming Friday would have been the choice…but it is 9/11, which is (as you all know) “National Service Day”. I seem to recall 9/11 having some OTHER significance, but once it became “National Service Day” the other association faded away.

    So we’re thinking maybe next Saturday? There’s a lot of pent up rhymes just waiting to spring forth!! 🙂

  56. 2009 September 7 9:06 am
    [56]
    judyt2009 permalink

    Again, my friend is in a discussion with a kool-aid drinker about health care. The kool-aid drinker was whining that we needed Obamacare because people cannot afford health insurance. So my friend says.. well then they need to get a second job. The person whined… you mean work 7 days a week so you can afford health insurance. Friend says .. YES. My friend has worked part time at Lowe’s for the last 5/6 years for the health insurance. She has worked 7 days a week and at least 65 to 70 hours a week for this very reason.

    We do need some reform… but not a total dismantling of the existing system nor handing it over to the government.

    So when someone complains they can’t afford their health insurance I ask… Do you have a car payment? Is the cost of your health insurance greater than your car payment? What is more important having health insurance or driving a new car? Drive a car you can afford with no payment and buy your health insurance — and make sure mental health is included because if your self-esteem and self-image is tied up in the car you drive instead of knowing that you have your basic necessities covered you need some time on the couch.

  57. 2009 September 7 9:14 am
    [57]
    JustMary permalink

    I have been wanting another page for this site for a while now. Recommended reading, complete with book reviews. It would also have a section showing coming events for tea parties and whatnot. Soon….

  58. 2009 September 7 9:27 am
    [58]
    justrand permalink

    I would LOVE a “recommended reading” section!!! Pretty please?? 🙂

  59. 2009 September 7 9:36 am
    [59]
    knova permalink

    “So when someone complains they can’t afford their health insurance I ask… Do you have a car payment? Is the cost of your health insurance greater than your car payment? What is more important having health insurance or driving a new car?”

    Be careful when you say things like that. For the past 7 years I bought health insurance for my family on the market. By the time my wife got it thru her work it was costing me over $5,000 a quarter for a High Deductable ($5,600) plan. It wen up every year anywhere between 17% to 25%. That is the main reason that all of my cars were bought used and for cash. Can you imagine the new car I could have had for a $1,333/month payment?

    Health costs and insurance go up way beyond the pace of inflation, which is why companies are dropping it or making employees make bigger contributions. The biggest problem with healthcare in this country is that nearly NO ONE pays for it themselves. If a third party is always paying, be it government or company paid insurance, the increased costs are invisible to the end user.

  60. 2009 September 7 9:40 am
    [60]
    judyt2009 permalink

    bc3b — I wonder how many men, women or children in this country would voluntarily reach into their wallets and hand Van Jones $260.00?

    So the question for all those squishy moderates who see nothing wrong with Van Jones just ask them to open their wallets or checkbooks and send him $260 for everyone in their household and then they should demand that everyone they know do the same. Any takers? Oh, and if they want to give someone a pass on contributing, then they need to make up the difference.

    It is about time we start to personalize where our money goes.

  61. 2009 September 7 9:50 am
    [61]
    judyt2009 permalink

    knova…

    Okay — but that insurance covered you and your wife.. plus how many kids? So divide that $1,333 car payment by at least two or three == and you end up with something close to the typical car payment that many are carrying.

    Now why does health insurance cost more than rate of inflation == (1) malpractice insurance for healthcare providers and (2) additional tests, etc. to avoid potential malpractice claims.

  62. 2009 September 7 9:51 am
    [62]
    mpthompson permalink

    It has been fascinating to me that Horowitz, who is an agnostic, recognizes the spiritual dimension to what is taking place in our country. I firmly believe this is not only a political war; it is a moral and spiritual war.

    As an agnostic (or more accurately, someone who is without faith) I can fully understand Horowitz’ feelings regarding the spiritual dimension. I certainly feel it myself and I have no problem framing it within moral and spiritual dimensions or, more succinctly, between good and evil. As much as I do lack faith, I think there is great wisdom in the concept of inalienable rights bestowed upon each individual by the Creator. A concept that has separated the United States from all other nations on the Earth.

    Perhaps we are beginning to witness the Fourth Great Awakening.

  63. 2009 September 7 9:59 am
    [63]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    Be careful when you say things like that. For the past 7 years I bought health insurance for my family on the market. By the time my wife got it thru her work it was costing me over $5,000 a quarter for a High Deductable ($5,600) plan. It wen up every year anywhere between 17% to 25%. That is the main reason that all of my cars were bought used and for cash. Can you imagine the new car I could have had for a $1,333/month payment?

    Insurance is ridiculous for many reasons we have already discussed.

    The odds are you could have provided medical care for your family at a series of doctor’s offices for half that, or less.

    We’ve got to get the government out of it. We have to return to the doctor/patient relationship without interference from the government, and let people buy their own term or catastrophic policies.

  64. 2009 September 7 10:00 am
    [64]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    By the time my wife got it thru her work it was costing me over $5,000 a quarter for a High Deductable ($5,600) plan.

    I have wife, 2 kids, and I was able to get complete coverage for almost half that, both in payment and in deductible.

    That is unaffordable in my view.

  65. 2009 September 7 10:02 am
    [65]
    knova permalink

    61 – Actually the car payment would have been $1,667, no calculator ;). Let me ask you this. What if your employer gave you the amount of money that they pay in premiums for you as salary and it wasn’t taxed. What would you do?

    Defensive medicine is part of the problem. Torts is part of the problem. Pro Bono work and bad debt is shifted to those who can pay, I will not reargue what I did before, other than to say Hospitals and Medical providers are going to treat people regardless of their ability to pay. And we keep creating new technologies to replace older ones and those are expensive, but necessary to curing things that 5 years ago couldn’t be cured.

    Medicare and Medicaid pay below market rates and are shifted to insurance companies who are also negotiating the lowest rates that they can.

    I have had an earful from my Dad who is CFO of a hospital about why rates keep going up. Again, if we paid for it ourselves, and there was transparency in actual costs before a procedure, perhaps we would shop around.

  66. 2009 September 7 10:04 am
    [66]
    MDefl permalink

    RWY – The problem is that ins comps cannot compete across state lines for Health Ins. Remove that restriction and the premiums will come down significantly.

  67. 2009 September 7 10:04 am
    [67]
    knova permalink

    RWY – Mine included 3 kids. I have had Cancer and my wife had another medical issue. That makes things a bit different when our family is its own pool.

    It didn’t start out at $5,000. In 2003 it was about $2,000 a quarter.

  68. 2009 September 7 10:05 am
    [68]
    rightwingyahoo permalink

    Yes, good reasons.

  69. 2009 September 7 10:08 am
    [69]
    knova permalink

    63 – “The odds are you could have provided medical care for your family at a series of doctor’s offices for half that, or less. ”

    No Doubt. I think that I said last week that i had paid $81,000 for insurance and $20,000 for deductables in a HSA. I was not carrying insurance for Doctors visits, I was carrying it for the proverbial “hit by a truck” scenario. If I knew ‘t going to get sick or hurt, I wouldn’t buy it. I would have bought a couple of Hummers

  70. 2009 September 7 10:32 am
    [70]
    INC permalink

    Thanks for your reflection on this, mpt.

    Perhaps we are beginning to witness the Fourth Great Awakening.

    This may be so–I think many are praying for this.

    BTW, some think the Fourth Great Awakening took place during the days of the Jesus Movement in the late 60s and early 70s. That’s my opinion, especially considering that was my time of conversion and the time of conversion of many I have known who became pastors or went into some type of full-time ministry.

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